What in your opinion is the main reason for the rise in violent crime?

"Generation naughty-corner" is growing into adulthood
13
22%
Growing inequality in society
5
9%
The increased availability of alcohol
1
2%
Videogames and other violent media
3
5%
The decline of religious instruction in morality
8
14%
P
4
7%
Our broken justice system going soft on criminals
10
17%
It isn't rising, reported crime is
11
19%
Other (please explain)
3
5%
 
Total voters : 58

Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby mudguard on Wed 7/Apr/10 10:05am

Can't we drop them on Auckland Island, Escape from Absalom styles?

I think the trouble with re-investment programmes after prison, is that they're in effect being trained/rewarded for their crime.

But there isn't an easy answer.
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby its that guy on Wed 7/Apr/10 10:55am

:hmmm: ...This is the only trend i can see of your graph...

i see a trend.jpg

:lol:
its that guy
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby Slim on Wed 7/Apr/10 12:00pm

Lynskey wrote:I don't know what the solution is, I just have my opinions but you're right, the current scheme is no good. At risk of being called a socialist I do believe one problem is equality. I think the prisons are the place to start, people leaving prison need a reason to change their ways. If there was a system implemented that allowed them to find meaningful employment then it would provide an alternative avenue to re-offending. Slotting them in some 6-week menial job isn't going to do much to bolster their confidence, they know the difference. I think that would be a good start. As for prevention? Shit, that's a whole new debate in itself.


What about making prison a place that they never want to go back to?

We have plenty of people that aren't violent criminals working for us that are doing what most people consider a menial job, why should we give a rapist or murderer a "meaningful" job when there is plenty of normal everyday people that would be a much better option to offer the job to and give them a hand up.

In my opinion it's similar to the unemployment benefit, sure all those people are avaliable to be employed, but they are simply unemployable, so as a business why would we bother with the headache attached to it, when you can get someone that is willing to work.
Slim
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby Oli on Wed 7/Apr/10 12:59pm

People don't commit crimes thinking about what prison will be like or the death penalty or any other type of punishment. HTH
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby ThingOne on Wed 7/Apr/10 1:12pm

Oli wrote:People don't commit crimes thinking about what prison will be like or the death penalty or any other type of punishment. HTH


Oli's correct, most crims dont actually think they will be caught therefore prison is not a deterrent.
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby SlackBoy on Wed 7/Apr/10 1:14pm

ThingOne wrote:
Oli wrote:People don't commit crimes thinking about what prison will be like or the death penalty or any other type of punishment. HTH


Oli's correct, most crims dont actually think they will be caught therefore prison is not a deterrent.
Well we haven't been arested for crimes against dance yet have we
SlackBoy
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby philstar on Wed 7/Apr/10 1:16pm

Slim wrote:What about making prison a place that they never want to go back to?


this would work with rational criminals, but most are not rational, they do not sit there and think I'll only get 1X years for raping this other person I'll do it, I wouldn't if it was 2X, but 1X is worth it.

no matter how horrible you make prison, people will not think "I don't want to go back". The worse prison is, the more it hurts people the more they will try and hurt back when they are out.
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby thorg on Wed 7/Apr/10 1:21pm

ThingOne wrote:
Oli wrote:People don't commit crimes thinking about what prison will be like or the death penalty or any other type of punishment. HTH


Oli's correct, most crims dont actually think they will be caught therefore prison is not a deterrent.
That, and the issue of NZ having such a high imprisonment rate, if it were a deterrent we wouldnt have the reoffending rate. . .

Though perhaps the other (Slims?) side of the argument is that it's because prison is too soft? and it isn't a deterernt for that reason?

Though on the (limited) reading I have done the thingone point of "perception of possibility of getting caught" comes into play. For a deterrent to be effective, crims must first believe it is a real possibility.

(though I have met a few ex crims now straight who said that have deliberatly committed crimes just harsh enough so they would be sent to prison again, as survival on the 'outside' was too tough. the only people that would associate with them once out were crims and lowlife scum, leading straight back to crime again, struggling seemed to difficult and prison gave them a security they never found in the real world. their logic was, to avoid getting back into crime, I'll get myself sent back to prison)
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby scatter on Wed 7/Apr/10 1:36pm

thorg wrote:(though I have met a few ex crims now straight who said that have deliberatly committed crimes just harsh enough so they would be sent to prison again, as survival on the 'outside' was too tough. the only people that would associate with them once out were crims and lowlife scum, leading straight back to crime again, struggling seemed to difficult and prison gave them a security they never found in the real world. their logic was, to avoid getting back into crime, I'll get myself sent back to prison)

:withstupid:
scatter
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby Slim on Wed 7/Apr/10 1:43pm

There is plenty of people that say "our prison population is to high" and "our reoffending rate is to high" but what I don't see is any logical alternative that is going to have a better outcome.

Like Oli says, the thought of getting caught, or the thought of spending 10 years in prison regardless of the conditions probably plays a very small part if any part at all in the thought process as to rape and kill, just rape, just kill or just let them walk on past smile and nod. So my question still remains. If prison isn't the right thing, What is?

Maybe we need to look at Ze Gurmans, People were speeding, so instead of policing a speed limit, build a road on which it was ok to speed and let people loose. So should we allow guns and drugs in prison and let them loose to sort it out for themselves.
Slim
Member for: 14 years 4 months

Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby Henry Dorset Case on Wed 7/Apr/10 2:05pm

philstar wrote:
MrGavdobaleena wrote:We got broken into and stuff stolen a month or so ago. police caught the youths. we have the outcome for one offender from the youth court meeting. he got 50 hours community service, a pair of rugby league boots and his league season fees paid. for every hour he plays league, his community service is reduced by an hour. this is part of the reason, the court system is a joke for youth offending. was thinking about going further with this because my wife and i were/are highly pissed off.

is this a shit outcome or am i seeing it from the wrong perspective?


I think making him play a team sport (league would probably be my last choice) is a good idea. While not much of a punishment it will build a sense of comunity, with the team and then hopefully that comunity can expand. Though the ability for judges to stratify punisment and rehibilation would help perspective, eg if the judge said 50 hours comuinty service up to 30 of which can be replaced with a socilisation programe. but I agree the sentace is a bit light, I think 90 with 50 playing legue would be better.


wont it just make the scumbag fitter so he can run further and faster carrying your shit? and more aggressive so when cornered he can give you the bash more effectively?
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby Henry Dorset Case on Wed 7/Apr/10 2:06pm

mudguard wrote:Can't we drop them on Auckland Island, Escape from Absalom styles?

I think the trouble with re-investment programmes after prison, is that they're in effect being trained/rewarded for their crime.

But there isn't an easy answer.


wrong island.


Tasmania.
Henry Dorset Case
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"[b]DO THEY SPEAK ENGLISH IN WHAT?[/b]"
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby fatwombat on Wed 7/Apr/10 2:31pm

Henry Dorset Case wrote:wrong island. Tasmania.

No point in sending them there - all Australians know that NZ was populated by tassie convicts who could swim. :p
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby ThingOne on Wed 7/Apr/10 3:27pm

SlackBoy wrote:
ThingOne wrote:
Oli wrote:People don't commit crimes thinking about what prison will be like or the death penalty or any other type of punishment. HTH


Oli's correct, most crims dont actually think they will be caught therefore prison is not a deterrent.
Well we haven't been arested for crimes against dance yet have we


:paranoid:
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Re: Why Is Violent Crime On The Rise?

Postby Henry Dorset Case on Wed 7/Apr/10 4:34pm

SlackBoy wrote:Well we haven't been arested for crimes against dance yet have we


no but if you do that dance anywhere within 2km of a school again, you will be. You know the one I mean
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