Fraser wrote:There are tools for this. I work in Explosive demolition, although I am not a mining specialist I have used one of these http://www.brokk.com/ for when things are risky.
I have observed cable and video linked ones being used in hostile environments such as Uranium mining. The small ones you can fit on a back of a ute.

My equipment that I wear is anti static and there are tools that we use that ensure we don't set the explosives off. I have worn those all in one suits a couple of times too so understand the uncomfort.
Need air? Take 2 tanks, take a bunch of them on a trailer you pull along.

I'm sorry if I seem crass, but I don't see this as a moon landing. You just need the right tools.

Operating something remotely 20-200m away on surface is a lot different than remotely operating something up a 2.5km tunnel which is not set up for any remote controlled operations. They already have remote things like that on the coast. Here is a video of one of the remotely controlled Komatsu D575A SuperDozers (worlds largest production series bulldozer) from the Stockton Coal mine near Westport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxxyII9ko9c
However, I not think the Superdozer would not have fitted down the tunnel as it is huge (does not look it in the video but you notice it when you stand in the blade), it pushes 69 m3 of material per pass with the standard blade size which I think Kaipara are using there.

Plus i would give each man a max of 4 hours in that mine before his judgement would be compromised due to
severe dehydration. Even with a internal fluid system inside his BA he would be screwed within about 3 hours.

All this would have been factored into the decision making process very early on and the majority of those on standby to enter the mine would have had all those factors playing in the back of their minds.

Well you don't need a commission of enquiry lead by Maj.Phuckup to illustrate what a disaster has been not only for the miners. But also the rescue operation that has taken weeks rather than days.
There is no denying that coal mines have volitile gases and this would be at the envelope of operation for punters in walking with breathing equipment.
Did no one think that there is this is risky and when something like this happens, how do you get in and out?

Lets see in a couple of days once they have had the GAG running what they do.

I don't think it matters what anyone posts (or what may come out in an inquiry), Fraser will have an answer to the contrary.

Fraser wrote:Lets see in a couple of days once they have had the GAG running what they do.

The GAG has been running since Wednesday night - with the exception of a shutdown overnight last night for repairs.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/ ... d=10692080

FINALLY someone talking some sense. I appreciate that the guy has conducted himself very well in the aftermath of the tragedy, but the praise being heaped on him does seem a little excessive in the light of the fact that 29 of his employees just died at work

IMHO Matt McCarten has taken it a bit far with the pro-union and knocking the govt B/S, he comes across as anti the mining company, government, in fact anti anything other than his beloved unions

So just accepting this was an act of god and waiting for people to walk out by themselves is ok?

It is a bit like sailing out into the ocean and expecting people to swim.

Fraser wrote:It is a bit like a boat sinking 20 miles offshore and commenting why someone else didn't swim out and save someone.

Fixed that for you.

It's funny how nobody that actually works in the industry or has any actual knowledge of underground coal mines or any experience with mines rescue is criticising the recovery operation.

I also find the media frottage over Peter Whittall disturbing. He designed that mine. He was mine manager prior to being CEO. The operation was clearly unsafe and anyone claiming otherwise is full of shit. He's Australian and he knows full well that if this had happened in Australia he'd be facing serious jail time.

Dunno why the EPMU needs to get involved either, they are more interested in union power than the welfare of their members. Fucking parasites.

Might be time to let this thread die a peaceful death.

What will be will be.

Ok so they "have done everything they can to get the bodies out" so are sealing the mine. Yet the recievers are "considering the option of eventually reopening the mine so that it can again be a major employer and contribute substantially to the West Coast economy".

Seal the mine. Leave it for a period of time and then open it for a little exploratory sniff of the environment.

The freaking machine they were spending huge buck on daily was a total waste of time and money from what I can see. Have talked to several mine engineers over christmas about this and they werte pretty much unanimous that once it was know evenyone was dead the mine should have been either sealed or flooded to kill any fires and let the environment settle down. A couple preferred flooding if there was a suitable water supply as that stops any possibility of gas build-up and a specialist dive team could be sent in to recover bodies.

One small problem with that Russ. The topography of the mine. The shafts actually go up into the hill, not down. The site where the explosion is thought to have occurred is above the mine entrance so flooding it with water could be a difficult proposition.

Seal the front and fill it from the vent shaft?

Sealing underground mine fires just don't seem possible. There's another on the West coast what has been burning away underground for decades. They try to seal the gaps, but the heat keeps creating new cracks in rock. I suspect eventually they'll just give up entirely and thoroughly block up all the big access points and just leave it alone.