Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby Kyle on Wed 20/May/15 9:47am

Roadcones are designed to be run over 15 times in their useable lifetime. I have no interest in dressing up like a roadcone.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby Farm on Wed 20/May/15 10:45am

Adding to Kyle and R+P+K's points.
In my opinion driving a car comes with the same responsibilities as using a firearm.
Someone gets shot in the bush by a mate and hoards of people chime in with their opinion on gun safety, safe firing zones, licensing, target identification etc etc.
Kill someone with your car and it's more often just one of those things.

There's been several instances of huge public uproar when someone who shot somebody accidentally has been seen using a gun again. Within the letter of the law but again hoards of people stating they shouldn't be allowed near a gun ever again.
Kill someone with your car, park it up for 8 months and then you're set.

As for looking like a road cone. I met a guy who drove one of those road safety trucks with the big bumper on the back.
He reckoned he got hit 4 times in 12 months. As the second truck.
With the big flashing lights and arrows and yellow bumper. After you've just passed the other identical trick but before you come to the lawnmower with the flashing light.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby dwgknz on Wed 20/May/15 10:53am

Farm wrote:As for looking like a road cone. I met a guy who drove one of those road safety trucks with the big bumper on the back.
He reckoned he got hit 4 times in 12 months. As the second truck.
With the big flashing lights and arrows and yellow bumper. After you've just passed the other identical trick but before you come to the lawnmower with the flashing light.


One of my colleagues watched a car on the Terrace off ramp go round an attenuator truck (fancy name for big bumper truck), pull back into the lane and slam into the back of the ute that they were protecting.

Road cones work well for waking truck drivers up as they approach road works, unfortunately plenty of truck drivers can't tell the difference between orange cones and guys in orange jackets.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby Kyle on Wed 20/May/15 12:13pm

I wear a Hi-Viz for work. Does it make me safer? Doubtful, but it covers my bosses ass. Does it make it fractionally easier for the recovery team to find my corpse when the right combination of clusterfucks occur and the 15,000 tonnes of concrete and steel that calls itself a earthquake prone building decides to collapse on top of me. Yep.

The agenda pushing for compulsory Hi-Viz cyclists wins no matter what we do. If it does become compulsory cycling numbers drop so more money for road/more parking spaces. If it stays the status quo then they get to keep the blame the victim 'You should have been wearing high viz so I wouldn't have run you over' excuse.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby R+P+K on Wed 20/May/15 12:23pm

The most commonly replaced part in collision repair is the front bumper. The second is the rear bumper.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby slidecontrol on Wed 20/May/15 6:26pm

Kyle wrote:I wear a Hi-Viz for work. Does it make me safer? Doubtful, but it covers my bosses ass. Does it make it fractionally easier for the recovery team to find my corpse when the right combination of clusterfucks occur and the 15,000 tonnes of concrete and steel that calls itself a earthquake prone building decides to collapse on top of me. Yep.


you can has raises a point there,

for hi-vis to work, people still have to be looking...
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby Simonius_Titius on Wed 20/May/15 7:21pm

Kyle wrote:Roadcones are designed to be run over 15 times in their useable lifetime. I have no interest in dressing up like a roadcone.

It would be cheaper to make grey / green gunge coloured road cones out of recycled plastic, or black ones. I guess they found those get knocked over more often though.

Anyway, follow the colour code. Road cones are orange. Cyclists, cops, emergency workers etc are yellow.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby swtchbckr on Wed 20/May/15 8:08pm

and fluoro green helmets FTW. it's my only contribution to the garishness that is hi-vis. too many cyclists wearing hi-vis, as mentioned above, just makes them blame us for not wearing it, so I'm sure as hell gonna keep wearing regular fucking clothes and they can pry the handlebar from my cold dead hand.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby mudguard on Wed 20/May/15 9:25pm

More people riding is the only solution. Which is catch 22. Cyclists shouldn't be a surprise for drivers.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby happybaboon on Thu 21/May/15 2:28am

Is it time to introduce a new colour for bicycles?
Ano purple is the obvious choice. Bright purple flashing lights.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby RHR_Rob on Thu 21/May/15 5:12pm

I think if every cyclist that drives a car thinks back, at some point they will have driven a piece of rd they maybe drive regular on 'Auto pilot' i know i have, we can be attentive 99% of the time but that 1% where the mind might wander to something else...... and its in that 1% where the accident will happen, so really it probably makes didly squat what the victim is wearing and yes the driver is probably telling the truth when they say i didnt see him.
maybe i am just one of the lucky ones that hasn't hit anything - yet.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby Alton on Thu 21/May/15 6:23pm

I also went through a spout of kicking, punching cars removing keys and willing to get into fights but at some point you realise the laws are designed to have useless drivers. I've worked that one out and have come to piece with the truth. I personally don't give a flying f**k if a cyclist runs red lights or not cos there is no way in hell that will lead to his demise.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby Slapheid on Thu 21/May/15 9:34pm

The only Hi Viz I own is my Flash Gordon, and I wear it for its weather defeating properties rather than for safety.
Hi Viz does sod all against the sea of lights that is the daily commute.

I ward off death using decent lights and reflective tape (especially on the cranks). Where possible I try to do car speeds in a 'car position' on the road. Trying to make eye contact with drivers (when they look up from their phones) and signalling my intentions seems to have a positive effect too.

+1 for the dayglo green helmet.
Last edited by Slapheid on Thu 21/May/15 9:45pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby Slapheid on Thu 21/May/15 9:44pm

When living in Glasgow I rode a black MTB commuter and wore a high-viz yellow Endura jacket and plain white helmet*
Cars used to be overly polite around me and groups of Neds would stop what they were doing and stand to attention as I passed.

* Coincidently, it was standard garb for the Strathclyde Police cycle rozzers :)
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Re: Vorb Talkback Tuesday: The Hi-vis Fallacy

Postby AgrAde on Thu 21/May/15 10:13pm

RHR_Rob wrote:I think if every cyclist that drives a car thinks back, at some point they will have driven a piece of rd they maybe drive regular on 'Auto pilot' i know i have, we can be attentive 99% of the time but that 1% where the mind might wander to something else...... and its in that 1% where the accident will happen, so really it probably makes didly squat what the victim is wearing and yes the driver is probably telling the truth when they say i didnt see him.
maybe i am just one of the lucky ones that hasn't hit anything - yet.


I dunno, I don't really get that argument. I know what you mean by "auto pilot" but the only reason it really feels like autopilot is because it's the same old drive and nothing odd happened. Not because you were completely unattentive. If you're driving down the road and someone pulls out in front of you, it's their fault. I can understand a slightly slower reaction time when you're 100km into the straight line drive between Christchurch and Timaru that you've done 50 times in the past couple years, and that's fine. No human on earth is 100% perfect and on their game all the time. If you then pull up to a give-way, you're looking for all the things you've trained yourself to look for. Just like you would on an unfamiliar road.

It's the things you're trained to look for that's the problem. People just look for cars. If they've had dealings with cyclists, or they have cyclists friends, they're more likely to check for cyclists and be aware of them. It all comes back to awareness IMO.

Which, unfortunately, is why you kinda have to be the nice cyclist. If you rightly act angry towards those that almost ruin your whole life then their natural defensive reaction is to shut off, dehumanise you, and fortify their ignorance.
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