Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Dougal on Sun 23rd Apr 8:14pm

I'll start. This (square taper) crank has apparently broken in storage. Hasn't been ridden for about 4 years, must have been cracked internally and unzipped on it's own.
Would make a great study for any Mech E students doing Fracture Mechanics.

IMG_20170423_144351.jpg
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 7 months

Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Velocipedestrian on Sun 23rd Apr 9:14pm

Square taper XT! What kind of hoarder are you?

(my spares box only goes back to octalink)
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dwgknz
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Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Dougal on Mon 24th Apr 7:56am



Had to happen. 15mm is just too skinny for any torsional stiffness. It also cannot work for inverted forks.
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 7 months

Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Dougal on Mon 24th Apr 7:58am

Velocipedestrian wrote:Square taper XT! What kind of hoarder are you?

(my spares box only goes back to octalink)


I'm an accomplished hoarder. I have bikes and parts which predate this by 5 years!

But it's okay because everyone loves vintage and retro bikes.
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 7 months

Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby dwgknz on Mon 24th Apr 8:15am

Dougal wrote:


Had to happen. 15mm is just too skinny for any torsional stiffness. It also cannot work for inverted forks.


I get that, but why wasn't that a consideration before boost 15 became the standard for a majority of 2017 bikes?

This doesn't actually hurt me too much. I have a 2016 bike pre-boost, I can just skip a standard if it comes to that.

But that doesn't change my view that the relentless hunt for stiffness is broken.
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Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Velocipedestrian on Mon 24th Apr 8:23am

dwgknz wrote:
Dougal wrote:


Had to happen. 15mm is just too skinny for any torsional stiffness. It also cannot work for inverted forks.


I get that, but why wasn't that a consideration before boost 15 became the standard for a majority of 2017 bikes?

This doesn't actually hurt me too much. I have a 2016 bike pre-boost, I can just skip a standard if it comes to that.

But that doesn't change my view that the relentless hunt for stiffness is broken.


Like your man in the article says
Bryson Martin wrote: Well, I listen to some of my top riders who really push the forks a lot more and they could go with a stiffer set up—they appreciate Boost—but those guys represent the top 2 percent of all riders. But there’s always a cost benefit thing to consider. The industry is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to get this improvement in stiffness for the top 2 percent… Is it worth the cost? I don’t know, but I know the industry is moving that way and if we’re bringing out new product we have to consider it.


Incremental gains, with no care for backwards compatibility (yes, OK, this one is adaptable backwards provided you skipped 15mm).
The companies who push these standard changes don't make their money in the aftermarket.
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Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Dougal on Mon 24th Apr 8:48am

dwgknz wrote:
Dougal wrote:


Had to happen. 15mm is just too skinny for any torsional stiffness. It also cannot work for inverted forks.


I get that, but why wasn't that a consideration before boost 15 became the standard for a majority of 2017 bikes?

This doesn't actually hurt me too much. I have a 2016 bike pre-boost, I can just skip a standard if it comes to that.

But that doesn't change my view that the relentless hunt for stiffness is broken.


For people like me 15mm was a false evolutionary branch. I've almost been able to skip it entirely.

I think Boost as a 15x110mm standard would have been too hard and costly for the industry to jump all at once if it went back to the proper axle size. It was 2014 they were gearing up for Boost and forks like Fox32 probably still can't fit a 20mm axle.

The irony was 20x110mm already had the clearance between dropout and caliper to fit the boost tyres through, it was just the fork legs needed widened. I emailled a suspension engineer a few weeks back asking about 20x120mm Boost. I wasn't far off. This does mean the same width will work and only cap reducers are needed to go from one to the other.
Because it's looking like the heavy duty single crown forks will want to fit both 15x110 and 20x110. DH forks will b 20x110mm and people can swap wheels around again.

15mm just doesn't have enough strength or stiffness in any direction. Look at a big "torque caps" that RS have put on the Lyrik and big hub flanges to try and stiffen up the fork. Where my 2005 Nixon (one of my favourite forks, I still ride it) with 20mm axle is rock solid.
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 7 months

Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Velocipedestrian on Mon 24th Apr 9:00am

Dougal wrote:For people like me 15mm was a false evolutionary branch. I've almost been able to skip it entirely.


All the front axles in our house are 9mm QR or 20x110 non-boost.
I still keep an eye on tardme for bargains to keep the collection in spares.
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Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Dougal on Mon 24th Apr 9:25am

Velocipedestrian wrote:
Dougal wrote:For people like me 15mm was a false evolutionary branch. I've almost been able to skip it entirely.


All the front axles in our house are 9mm QR or 20x110 non-boost.
I still keep an eye on tardme for bargains to keep the collection in spares.


I can still deliver both those options in Manitou. New and new-old-stock.
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 7 months

Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Velocipedestrian on Mon 24th Apr 9:39am

Dougal wrote:
Velocipedestrian wrote:
Dougal wrote:For people like me 15mm was a false evolutionary branch. I've almost been able to skip it entirely.


All the front axles in our house are 9mm QR or 20x110 non-boost.
I still keep an eye on tardme for bargains to keep the collection in spares.


I can still deliver both those options in Manitou. New and new-old-stock.

One of the 9mm units is from the era of 30mm stanchions being a bit hardcore - a Black.
But the only modern Manitou I'd like to try is the Mattoc, I'd suffer the indignity of buying some 15mm caps. (it's just the fork price that keeps me away)
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Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Dougal on Mon 24th Apr 10:00am

Velocipedestrian wrote:One of the 9mm units is from the era of 30mm stanchions being a bit hardcore - a Black.
But the only modern Manitou I'd like to try is the Mattoc, I'd suffer the indignity of buying some 15mm caps. (it's just the fork price that keeps me away)


The Black were and still are a fantastic fork. The Black was lightened up to become the R7 which was then beefed up for the M30 and then expanded into Boost spacing and relaunched last weekend as the Markhour.

We can do a demo Mattoc if you want to test one. Yes they're expensive but they are the best fork currently out there. I may be biased, but I'm also right. :D If you want 20x110mm we can do the Circus, build any 26inch 32mm fork, Sherman, Nixon, Travis (NOS) and there's always the current Dorado too.
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 7 months

Re: Broken Stuff Thread.

Postby Velocipedestrian on Mon 24th Apr 12:53pm

Quite.

The red Mattoc would match my Black so well too... One day (once kiddie budgeting allows)
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