1x Drivetrains

Postby dwgknz on Wed 10/Jun/15 11:39am

Scotty didn't give us a topic on Tuesday so I'll throw 1x drivetrains out there.

Read this article this morning on suspension kinematics http://www.ridingfeelsgood.com/suspension-linkage-kinematics-basics-anti-squat-pedal-kickback/

This was the first time I've seen this issue raised, generally it's range or cost.

The fors seem to be simplicity and weight.

But they're still being spec'd on most new bikes.

So what am I missing? Are people thinking 1x is a must have?
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby Astoria Paranoia on Wed 10/Jun/15 12:37pm

Nope.
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby Kyle on Wed 10/Jun/15 1:22pm

If only I had analysed a hundred and one mathnerd graphs before buying my bike I would have been able to spend more time arguing on the internet and less time riding.

Anyone who claims they can notice this stuff on the trail is either a pro or should buy something with a dw-link cos its the best suspension system ever designed and anyone who doesn't ride one is missing out on its plush but pedal efficient tunability.
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby AgrAde on Wed 10/Jun/15 1:29pm

I hate the feeling of stupid amounts of anti-squat, it's worse than not having enough. My old reign-x performed terribly with a granny and is part of the reason that I'm not put off by the 1x-only nature of my new frame.
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby foremannz on Wed 10/Jun/15 6:19pm

For me its the simplicity of only 1 gear lever to manage, with a wide range of ratios on 1 cluster. There is a drawback that no one talks about, in that the angle of the chain is such that the chain can feed off the outside large cog on the cluster if you back pedal too much (Sram 10-42T), but apart from that I love my 1x11
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby Jimmy_Rustles on Wed 10/Jun/15 6:33pm

You mountain bikers with your obsession with wide range cassettes :lol: horrible huge jumps between each gear, how do you maintain a smooth cadence?
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby AgrAde on Wed 10/Jun/15 6:55pm

Jimmy_Rustles wrote:You mountain bikers with your obsession with wide range cassettes :lol: horrible huge jumps between each gear, how do you maintain a smooth cadence?


The only time I notice it is when I'm riding my mtb on the road. I've got a super close cassette on the road bike for this reason but I never notice it on the trails because the speed is changing so much anyway :thumbsup:

It's a fair point - I'm surprised to see 1x11 drivetrains on XC race bikes because they often need to be spinning at an ideal cadence. I'd be 2x with an 11-32 in that scenario.
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby michael on Wed 10/Jun/15 8:39pm

The difference between a 38/26 crankset with 11-36 casette and a 32 with 11-40 cassette (11-36 w/ after market 40t) is 2 gears at the top and 1 the bottom.

People get a bit worked up about what is very little in reality.
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby AgrAde on Wed 10/Jun/15 9:02pm

With a 1x you have:

-heavier cassette if cheap (unsprung mass ruins suspension performance)
-really frikken expensive cassette if light ($500 for a consumable... what!)
-bigger jumps between each gear
-worse chainline
-more use of the tiny end of the cassette which means more drivetrain wear
-no emergency granny button for surprise climbs
-less range

But you get:
-marginally increased reliability
-decreased weight (only slight if cheap setup, especially if using a chainguide)
-consistent suspension performance under load (whether it's good or not depends on if your chainring size chosen to match your fitness happens to match the frame design).
-simpler cockpit (because we all need room for that dropper lever to go UNDER the handlebar)

So you could argue that if you're happy with the reliability of 2x and you don't want to spend heaps of money then there's very little reason to throw away the front derailleur.
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby mfw on Wed 10/Jun/15 11:16pm

AgrAde wrote:With a 1x you have:
-worse chainline

I keep toying with the idea, but this bothers me, never seen any numbers or efficiency data on it though.

Given the most of your torque is put through the drivetrain in your lowest gear, and most of us on a 1x will be spending the majority of riding time in (or near) lowest gear (climbing up the hill), then that's lots of time in the most skew = worst efficiency and most drivetrain wear state.

There's also the case where with a say 3x you can charge at a pinch climb in the middle ring with speed, then when your speed dies flick down to the granny half way up in one action 'supershift', the 1x equivalent, a 3 gear change onto bigger cassette rings is cumbersome.

Am still drawn to the simplicity of the 1x though, not just mechanically, but less to think about on the trail has got to be good eh :rolleyes:
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby AgrAde on Thu 11/Jun/15 12:07am

Yeah sorta... Gotta be careful what you mean by torque. You put a torque in, and the torque in depends on your legs. If you've got a small chainring, then the torque from your legs results in a large tension in the chain. If you've got a big chainring, the same torque from your legs results in a small tension in the chain. Less tension is good.

With a bigger chainring/1-up, you've got less load per tooth too. So with an acceptable chain line, your drive train will be very happy with you as you go up climbs with a 34/42 ratio instead of the 24/30 granny equivalent.

Most cranks give a total shit chain line for 1x though. I have 5mm spacers between my xt crank spider and chainring to bring it into the right place - slightly better chain line on the 40t than the 11t.

Those xt cranks are stupid. My 3x raceface ones are amazing - so close to the frame that you can't use the iscg tabs with grannyring bolts in the cranks. Puts the middle chainring in a perfect place for 1x.

I don't mind sacrificing the chain line of the 11t. I don't use it as much as the 40/42.
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby pushbikerider on Thu 11/Jun/15 7:03am

Are you using a double crank or a triple crank?
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby AgrAde on Thu 11/Jun/15 10:10am

The XT is a double hence the need for giant spacers. The raceface is a triple, but it's more inboard than other triples for whatever strange reason (cranks are still centre to frame). Thus it's perfect.

Most bikes I see set up in 1x use doubles (which is horrible) or 1x specific cranks like the new srams or raceface cinch etc, which still aren't perfect. It's good to see people making offset rings that put things a little further inboard now.
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby Rik on Thu 11/Jun/15 10:33am

So now I have to worry about my chain line on both the z-axis and y-axis. Its enough to make you want to go single speed.

Personally, I like the idea of throwing technology at the problem. Single trigger Di2 and let clever computer algorithms work out what cogs I should be using*.

* have never ridden the Single trigger Di2 setup to know how it reacts to throwing a FD and RD shift under load.
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Re: 1x Drivetrains

Postby mfw on Thu 11/Jun/15 1:50pm

Rik wrote:So now I have to worry about my chain line on both the z-axis and y-axis. Its enough to make you want to go single speed.

Personally, I like the idea of throwing technology at the problem.

You mean like this?
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