Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby RideEm on Tue 19/Jan/10 7:49am

Is cross training with running for cycling positive or negative? I have heard it uses different muscles, so does it end up being counterproductive?

Does anyone do it? Do they think it has improved there cycling?

What other types of cross training has anyone done that they reckon has been of benefit to their cycling?
RideEm
User avatar
Member for: 5 years 7 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby Fergie on Tue 19/Jan/10 8:29am

Counterproductive. Cycling makes you better at cycling. Do some homework on specificity adaptations to imposed demands (SAID).
Fergie
User avatar
"Fat, opinionated and can't ride a bike to save himself. Sounds overqualified to be a coach."
Member for: 8 years 5 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby RideEm on Tue 19/Jan/10 9:38am

Thanks for that Fergie, will just take your word on that.
RideEm
User avatar
Member for: 5 years 7 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby cruiser on Tue 19/Jan/10 9:59am

I think before you answer that question, what's your Goal? win elite road/ track cycle races, mtb/ downhill, or get fitter?

I'd say a mountain biker, or to a lesser extent a downhiller, could run as part of a fitness plan for better performance. Take for example the walking or running a bike up a hill in an event, if you're not fit at these movements, poor recovery will affect your ability to ride as well. Karapoti is a classic example, as are DH races where you are walking the bike alot over a 2 day period

I agree with fergie on the SAID principle but here are some results from a journal which may help put it into perspective.


Training effects are specific to the muscle groups used during training and the type of training program implemented (Fox, McKenzie, Cohen 1975).

Cycling training improved VO2 max more when tested on the cycle than when tested on the treadmill. The training effects of running are more general than cycling training. Running improved VO2 max approximately the same extent whether measured on the cycle or treadmill (Pechar et. al., 1974)



Cardiovascularly it's very difficult to match the intensity given by a run when cycling. In my experience the mental strength gained from killing your lungs on a run is very transferable when the lungs go into overload with cycling. Running is tops for heart and lung thrashing!

There are plenty of arguments for cross training, but don't think of it as replacing time in the saddle, moreso for an added bonus (unless your going for MTBO or karapoti records).


Other cross training would def be core training specific to cycling (and running if you do it) and anything else you like doing for mental freshness:)
Disclaimer: IMHO
Last edited by cruiser on Wed 20/Jan/10 10:34am, edited 1 time in total.
cruiser
User avatar
Member for: 5 years 11 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby danose on Tue 19/Jan/10 10:14am

Fergie wrote:Counterproductive. Cycling makes you better at cycling. Do some homework on specificity adaptations to imposed demands (SAID).


whilst I agree that there is no substitute for time on the bike, there can be other factors. I know that if I only cycle I end up with chronic muscle imbalances and tightness, that eventually give me back problems - if I do some running as well it helps balance things out and makes the problem goes away. So in that respect running definitely helps my cycling (since it lets me ride pain free)
danose
User avatar
"I've never met a hill I didn't like"
Member for: 10 years 6 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby danose on Tue 19/Jan/10 10:19am

cruiser wrote:Cardiovascularly it's very difficult to match the intensity given by a run when cycling. In my experience the mental strength gained from killing your lungs on a run is very transferable when the lungs go into overload with cycling. Running is tops for heart and lung thrashing!


you obviously have issues pushing yourself hard enough on the bike - as someone who runs and rides at a semi-decent level, I can kill my lungs just as easily doing either (indeed I'm more likely to get to the dancing spots/tunnel vision stage on the bike - simply cos on foot when it gets that bad you tend to trip over stuff).

running is definitely more leg fatiguing and hence requires more recovery time - which would be the negative for crosstraining via running (since it would reduce the volume you can do)
danose
User avatar
"I've never met a hill I didn't like"
Member for: 10 years 6 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby wgtngrl on Tue 19/Jan/10 10:25am

Since this is in the road/track cycling channels I'm guessing it's not for mtb. Based on that, I'm with Fergie. Understand where Danose is coming from tho, so if you get those issues it might be an option (probably a damn site cheaper than the myriad of treatment options for imbalances).

Even for mtb tho, while I agree there's a little bit that might be gained for those sections of running, generally your training for that is done when racing/pre-riding. Personally I don't do any run training during race season - little bit in the off-season to mix things up a bit and maintain some fitness.

Karapoti is an entirely different beast! Plenty of people do some specific hike-a-bike training for it.
wgtngrl
User avatarMedal
Member for: 10 years 6 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby Zaphod on Tue 19/Jan/10 10:42am

Running is good for off season traininig, and if you're trying to lose weight fast or keep winter weight off. During race season it's counter-productive due to the high fatigue and long recovery times it creates. Many top level cyclists do some running off season as it strengthens the core, and upper body - particularly off road running. It also helps with bone density as only cycling reduces bone mass due to it's lack of impact and stress on the bones. This isn't opinion - it's fact.
Zaphod
User avatar
Member for: 4 years 10 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby notanotherhill on Tue 19/Jan/10 11:05am

Fergie wrote:Counterproductive. Cycling makes you better at cycling. Do some homework on specificity adaptations to imposed demands (SAID).


Im going to have a stiff drink then read this again fergie :lol:
notanotherhill
Member for: 6 years 4 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby Fergie on Tue 19/Jan/10 11:44am

Depends on what goals are. Improve bone density then high impact exercise will do the trick, improve cardiovascular system then select an exercise that involves as much muscle as possible. The OP asked if running would improve cycling. Cycling faster improves cycling faster.
Fergie
User avatar
"Fat, opinionated and can't ride a bike to save himself. Sounds overqualified to be a coach."
Member for: 8 years 5 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby cruiser on Tue 19/Jan/10 12:15pm

Agreed fergie, cycling faster improves cycling faster :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

My comments are there to offer a counterbalance perspective to your argument of cross training :p
And adding to wgtngrl and Zaphod's comments: yes the stage of your training cycle would influence the amount, if any, running you may do. Generally it goes from a broad/ general training to more specific as you reach competition phase.

Dunno if I agree with running being more leg fatiguing Danose? alot may depend on the conditioning a person has. I find hill's burn the thighs on a bike, and burns the cardiovascular system running.

Before a specific answer could be given, alot more detail on your overall aims are needed.

Great forum for getting alot of different angles in the idea.
cruiser
User avatar
Member for: 5 years 11 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby danose on Tue 19/Jan/10 12:18pm

cruiser wrote:Dunno if I agree with running being more leg fatiguing Danose? alot may depend on the conditioning a person has. I find hill's burn the thighs on a bike, and burns the cardiovascular system running.


I'm comparing fatique leves and recovery speed when training for a 1/2M (so fully trained for running - or as good as I get since my 1/2M pace is only 4min K's) vs similar level of training on the bike. Even fully adapted I'd need more recovery time running vs riding (more impact so more damage)
danose
User avatar
"I've never met a hill I didn't like"
Member for: 10 years 6 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby cruiser on Tue 19/Jan/10 12:22pm

tru dat!
cruiser
User avatar
Member for: 5 years 11 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby RideEm on Tue 19/Jan/10 4:23pm

Some insightful answers!!

I was thinking of doing some running off season because it's time efficient, helps with weight loss (probably because its showing the body something different) and also it's mentally refreshing. However I don't want to damage my legs which I have spent several years conditioning for power/speed ... so from what I've read here, guess I'm best not to do it?!
RideEm
User avatar
Member for: 5 years 7 months

Re: Cross Training With Running For Cycling?

Postby danose on Tue 19/Jan/10 4:27pm

RideEm wrote:I was thinking of doing some running off season because it's time efficient, helps with weight loss (probably because its showing the body something different) and also it's mentally refreshing. However I don't want to damage my legs which I have spent several years conditioning for power/speed ... so from what I've read here, guess I'm best not to do it?!


I only run hills/offroad now (which blows your time saving - since I need to drive to the trails), and even then I still find that if I ONLY run I start dropping hill power when I'm back on the bike. Suspect the 'weight loss' is all muscle mass loss :(

so yeah, probably not for you
danose
User avatar
"I've never met a hill I didn't like"
Member for: 10 years 6 months

Cycling | Road Cycling | Track Cycling - Latest Posts

Who is online

58 Users browsing this website: beater32, Exabot [Bot], Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], kaiteri, Kyle, SlackBoy, Yahoo [Bot] and 47 guests

VORB SUPPORTERS


  • GT Bicycles
  • Vorb Shop
  • Butterfly Customs