Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby musket on Wed 13/Jul/11 10:01pm

Percy Pig wrote:
great uncle bulgaria wrote:
shmoodiver wrote:
musket wrote:Not really. crc would move inequality hundred times the volume of the entire nz market. their buy price would reflect that.

:withstupid:

mellow jonnies (sp) moves more shimano than all of nz


I try to do a mixture of both LBS and web buying.
I remain sceptical that the differences I see in end user price reflect the price difference to the suppliers - there seems to be massive voids at times - some of this will be "special" or "loss leader" but i would estimate that the price difference I see are about 20-30 percent regularly - is there really that much difference in cost to suppliers??

Yes.


Some of the wiggle / crc pricing is cheaper than small - mid size bike companies pay for groups OEM.
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby Kiwicyclo on Thu 14/Jul/11 1:56pm

Just picked up a Dura Ace Di2 FD for $519 . . . bargain. Wiggle is your friend. By buying from these guys I can have 2 groupsets for the price of 1 here in NZ.
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby znomit on Mon 18/Jul/11 7:27pm

Not Di2...
Image
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby istepinyards on Mon 18/Jul/11 8:42pm

Kiwicyclo wrote:Just picked up a Dura Ace Di2 FD for $519 . . . bargain. Wiggle is your friend. By buying from these guys I can have 2 groupsets for the price of 1 here in NZ.

Normal Dura-Ace FD that does a better job and is a quicker and crisper shifter from my local bike shop $130 :lol:

Yep you got a bargin :lol: :lol:
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby great uncle bulgaria on Thu 11/Aug/11 10:03pm

in depth review - Bikerumor

I'm not sure whether to be happy that I have DA now

looks like this groupset will be a gamechanger

http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/08/10/ult ... ch-report/
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby Simonius_Titius on Fri 12/Aug/11 12:09am

DiU will be a gamechanger in giving Shimano the power to make most of their former customer's groupset unmaintainable at whatever age they want.
At the moment mechanical compatibility with competitors forces Shimano to keep providing spares to the enemy i.e. to people who happily ride older Shimano groups.

Electronics are cheap to copy so I guess Shimano will make the electronics either uncopyable or else inseparable from the hardware. So a bent front derailleur will mean a new central computer.

The CANbus architecture does not specify higher level protocols so Shimano is free to encrypt or just change them any time. That would mean they can make your entire RD + FD + left shifter + right shifter + battery unmaintainable at will.

If you don't think it would make sense for a company to hurt it's own customers like that, consider the history:

Cars made just before the adoption of antiskid braking and airbags will be around for quite some time, but I would imagine plenty of much younger cars will have to be written off if an airbag or retractor seatbelt is triggered or an ABS fault develops.

Microsoft format wars re Office 95, 97 and WordPerfect. Why did Microsoft cause so much pain to their own customer base? My guess is that after WordPerfect etc. had been vanquished Microsoft's biggest competitor was their own former and still-satisfied customers.

HP put terminator code into it's printer cartridges at one time. The cartridge would simply stop working after a certain date even if it had spent its whole life stored in a cool basement in its unopened factory-sealed packaging.

Colour inkjet printers were once sold that would not function in black & white mode if one of the colour cartridges was empty. I think it is now always possible to set the printer to black & white mode, but the printers are designed to not switch over automatically so a lot of colour cartridges get sold to people who just want to print black & white, and a lot of printers get written off too.

IBM, Novell and Microsoft server licensing. If people with long experience with those companies start riding Di2 I'll eat my spare tube.
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby thelivo on Fri 12/Aug/11 1:01am

great uncle bulgaria wrote:in depth review - Bikerumor

I'm not sure whether to be happy that I have DA now

looks like this groupset will be a gamechanger

http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/08/10/ult ... ch-report/


Gamechanger? Nah. Persuade early adopters to part with some hard earned? Sure. I'm sure its great, but currently, I'm not convinced. One sentence stood out: "Unfortunately, we didn’t have the diagnostic tools on hand to test it and find the real issue." I like being able to take my bike to my favourite mechanic who casts his eye across my bike for a fraction of a second, spots the problem and waves his ninja bike weapons at it and scares it back into working again. If he plugged in his diagnostic PC it wouldnt be half as much fun.
They also make out that its pretty much idiotproof, but I don't think they have come across every permutation of idiot yet.
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby great uncle bulgaria on Fri 12/Aug/11 8:50pm

Simonius_Titius wrote:DiU will be a gamechanger in giving Shimano the power to make most of their former customer's groupset unmaintainable at whatever age they want.
At the moment mechanical compatibility with competitors forces Shimano to keep providing spares to the enemy i.e. to people who happily ride older Shimano groups.

Electronics are cheap to copy so I guess Shimano will make the electronics either uncopyable or else inseparable from the hardware. So a bent front derailleur will mean a new central computer.

The CANbus architecture does not specify higher level protocols so Shimano is free to encrypt or just change them any time. That would mean they can make your entire RD + FD + left shifter + right shifter + battery unmaintainable at will.

If you don't think it would make sense for a company to hurt it's own customers like that, consider the history:

Cars made just before the adoption of antiskid braking and airbags will be around for quite some time, but I would imagine plenty of much younger cars will have to be written off if an airbag or retractor seatbelt is triggered or an ABS fault develops.

Microsoft format wars re Office 95, 97 and WordPerfect. Why did Microsoft cause so much pain to their own customer base? My guess is that after WordPerfect etc. had been vanquished Microsoft's biggest competitor was their own former and still-satisfied customers.

HP put terminator code into it's printer cartridges at one time. The cartridge would simply stop working after a certain date even if it had spent its whole life stored in a cool basement in its unopened factory-sealed packaging.

Colour inkjet printers were once sold that would not function in black & white mode if one of the colour cartridges was empty. I think it is now always possible to set the printer to black & white mode, but the printers are designed to not switch over automatically so a lot of colour cartridges get sold to people who just want to print black & white, and a lot of printers get written off too.

IBM, Novell and Microsoft server licensing. If people with long experience with those companies start riding Di2 I'll eat my spare tube.


such cynicism in one so young :huh:

I agree, but think car computers not desktop computers

and think a handful of hundreds for a new front derailleur every four years.

and great boy toy cred

Cycling is the new Golf.

The great unwashed will love it .
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby FLATULENTFRIEND on Fri 12/Aug/11 9:09pm

I’m going to the garage to give my SingleSpeed a hug…it deserves it :love:
One gear = no messing :thumbsup:
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby great uncle bulgaria on Fri 12/Aug/11 9:13pm

FLATULENTFRIEND wrote:I’m going to the garage to give my SingleSpeed a hug…it deserves it :love:
One gear = no big hills:thumbsup:


fuxxorred :D
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby FLATULENTFRIEND on Fri 12/Aug/11 9:18pm

great uncle bulgaria wrote:
FLATULENTFRIEND wrote:I’m going to the garage to give my SingleSpeed a hug…it deserves it :love:
One gear = no big hills:thumbsup:


fuxxorred :D


How did you know.... :blush:
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby great uncle bulgaria on Fri 12/Aug/11 9:23pm

FLATULENTFRIEND wrote:
great uncle bulgaria wrote:
FLATULENTFRIEND wrote:I’m going to the garage to give my SingleSpeed a hug…it deserves it :love:
One gear = no big hills:thumbsup:


fuxxorred :D


How did you know.... :blush:



this womble has five bikes. four geared. one singley.
there is a reason.







small testes :blink:
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby znomit on Fri 12/Aug/11 9:28pm

I look forward to the day when my iDerailleur orders itself a new chain and bottle of lube from wiggle. I can never remember that stuff.
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby Conners on Fri 12/Aug/11 10:00pm

Actually that is a very good point. With all that analysis of chain alignment etc going on I'm sure chain/cassette/chainring wear detection must be possible.
Perhaps not an order to wiggle, but a wee flashing light would be a nice touch.





I wait for danose to chime in and tell me that the only way to measure chain stretch* is with an imperial steel rule.



*yes danose, you heard me correctly, I said chain stretch
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Re: Ultegra Di2

Postby great uncle bulgaria on Fri 12/Aug/11 10:13pm

Conners wrote:Actually that is a very good point. With all that analysis of chain alignment etc going on I'm sure chain/cassette/chainring wear detection must be possible.
Perhaps not an order to wiggle, but a wee flashing light would be a nice touch.





I wait for danose to chime in and tell me that the only way to measure chain stretch* is with an imperial steel rule.



*yes danose, you heard me correctly, I said chain stretch



and a bloody good way for shimano to sell more chains
*(but, sell less worn out drivechains :rolleyes: )
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