From the info I read, he had equity & assisted with the establishment of the Discovery Team. This was a new management company setup as USPS was closing down. The question being was this equity in USPS which was a different management complany..... Glad I'm not a lawyer. This'll cost shit loads to unravel.

I think the accusers have made a big mistake in scattering numerous accusations around, some of which are absolute crap and full of innaccuracies. They should have focussed on a small number of accusations that are provable (provided they do have real proof). I hope the ends justifies the means! I suspect some innocent people will be tarred, while some potentially guilty people will be able to get away because of the crap floating around.

I agree - but the nature of the Grand Jury means the grounds actually being investigated are secret, so we don't know which are being focussed on.

Lance is obviously aware they'll try and pin him via the USPS structure, as that allows them to get him even if they can't show he took PED's himself.

Regardless of the collateral damage, Cycling will be heading back to the dark ages if Lance gets indicted.

Oli wrote:

crowt wrote:Nope. "Fogt" is correct, the "i" is omitted.

Ach du leiber! I defer to your Crowtness.

If you watch overcoming, he introduces himself as Fogt. That's good enough for me

Although this thread talks about strategy on a technical level, can someone link where can I read about how TDF team strategy works in laymans terms? Don't want to kill this thread (like most of my posts).

I have never understood having lead out riders/sprinters while the winners are consistently near the front but only win/podium a few stages, and could be back a fair way from the front on some.

Thanks

slumdog wrote:Although this thread talks about strategy on a technical level, can someone link where can I read about how TDF team strategy works in laymans terms? Don't want to kill this thread (like most of my posts).

I have never understood having lead out riders/sprinters while the winners are consistently near the front but only win/podium a few stages, and could be back a fair way from the front on some.

Thanks

Because the essence of pro cycling is to get the sponsor's logo over the line first as often as possible, so for any given stage a team will set up the most likely (in terms of their individual strengths) team member to win - this means for a sprint stage a short-twitch fiend who has managed to hang on over the climbs, the TTs a muscular behemoth, and the climbing stages a whippet who can't sprint to save themselves.

Stage races are done on cumulative times over the course of the Tour so an overall contender needs to be good at taking time on the climbs and/or the TTs, but just needs to avoid losing time and/or crashing on the flat stages.

musket wrote:Regardless of the collateral damage, Cycling will be heading back to the dark ages if Lance gets indicted.

Am am interested in why you think that?

From what I have heard they are not aiming drugs cheating charges at LA, but rather fraud or perjury or something?? Are they basically saying that as the (part) owner of the team, that if he knew the team was doping then he is guilty??

In my opinion cycle racing is getting cleaner and having the authorities show that no matter how big and powerful you are, that if you encourage doping that you will get done for it can only help make the sport a cleaner place?

If LA has done no wrong then surely he has nothing to worry about.

Trail wrote:
If LA has done no wrong then surely he has nothing to worry about.

Everything else aside, that argument has pretty much never stood up in any situation.

Plus, I doubt even Lance going down will kill cycling - it seems to only be the media talking in such absolutes, and I suspect cycling will continue from the grass roots to the Tour bruised but unbowed. I honestly believe that people are so jaded by the doping thing that they move on from a scandal pretty fast, and the people that believe in LA will on the whole continue to do so no matter what the outcome of the Federal case.

How about a NZ team next year ??

Are the authorities getting tougher on drug cheats? and if they are would people the riders and teams be some what scared off from taking drugs as the press and punishment is not worth it?

slumdog wrote:Although this thread talks about strategy on a technical level, can someone link where can I read about how TDF team strategy works in laymans terms? Don't want to kill this thread (like most of my posts).

I have never understood having lead out riders/sprinters while the winners are consistently near the front but only win/podium a few stages, and could be back a fair way from the front on some.

Thanks

If I understand you correctly your wondering the same thing that confused me when I was only a casual observer of bike racing..which is why they don't all sprint at the end to get the best time and that's because everyone in a bunch gets the stage time of the first man in the bunch across the line. The GC candidates stay at the front of the bunch during the race because that is the safest place to cover attacks and avoid crashes, but the reverse applies at the end of the stage when the sprinters are winding up; it's dangerous at the front so they stay further back, and in the event of a crash in the last 2km they get the same time as the stage winner so it's ok to be back there

nostromo wrote:and in the event of a crash in the last 2km they get the same time as the stage winner so it's ok to be back there

3km - trainspotter, I know.

Someone at work asked an interesting questions - he pointed out cycling is a team sport. If a GC rider is clean, but his team mates test positive for drugs, is there any penalty against the GC rider? e.g. could someone be towed around France by 8 guys on the juice, and still claim a win?

Hmmm, I think so! The exact situation hasn't yet arisen of course so hard to know how ASO would handle that, although some might argue it has happened they just haven't been caught...

Oli wrote:Hmmm, I think so! The exact situation hasn't yet arisen of course so hard to know how ASO would handle that, although some might argue it has happened they just haven't been caught...

Some is under estimating it a tad isn't it.

USPS,Discovery,Banesto,T-Mobile to name a few