How do you thiink Trump is doing?

Best President ever, he's the greatest president, you'll never see a better president!
7
29%
I don't care
2
8%
OMG we're all doomed
11
46%
Kittenz
4
17%
 
Total voters : 24

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby dwgknz on Sat 4th Mar 1:10pm

The fears in the Rust Belt are globalisation and mobilisation. One that the remaining factories and plants will close down and the other that immigrants are taking jobs and a large proportion of the countries resources whereas those who have invested their lives into the country but don't live in the major cities will miss out. Trump played on these by saying that he would be bring manufacturing back to the US and will restrict immigration.

But even if manufacturing and processing come back to these areas the jobs won't. The factories left when automation demanded new technology, companies looked to build new factories in places where it was cheaper, but they didn't have the same labour requirement. The same happened with coal and steel. He can't bring the jobs back so should've focused on transformation rather than promoting the past.

His speeches regardless of location or occasion are full of self aggrandisement, attack of others and an opportunity to express his reality of things. He doesn't set out his agenda, plan or vision for the nation. He uses catch phrases and appeals to peoples emotions rather than their minds. They're simply total BS.

Let's not kid ourselves, when someone spends 18 months saying hes going to issue a travel ban to Muslims and then actually does so under a different guise, it is what it is. Call a spade a spade. I fundamentally don't disagree with what you're saying, yes if the US can't ensure security then develop systems to protect it. But go about it the right way. Don't create fire brand policies behind closed doors without engaging lawmakers and experts and opening things up to debate. The ban was a grenade lobbed at the legislature and government more so than the 7 countries or Muslim's in general, get on my train or I will do it alone. Once again the tactic worked, the ban failed but the Republican party fell into line. But it was just a taster of what he's prepared to do and how much thought is actually gone into it (ie. the whole dual citizen FU)

I think that he has made it such an uncomfortable place for the government that leaks will become more frequent and relevant. Rather than addressing the issue, why his experts don't like what's going on, he's attacking the whistle-blowers (anonymous or otherwise). I don't recall one fact from the lying media that wasn't backed by some form of document from his government. I think the WaPO summed it up nicely when they said Democracy Dies in the Dark.

The army is the latest issue. As the Commander in Chief of the armed forces he has supreme operational command of the armed forces. He signed of for the Yemen raid so for him to now use terms such as "they lost Ryan" creates a huge schism between the executive and the army. It's the kind of thing that will cause the armed forces to become far less willing to do anything that has any chance at failure due to the perceived lack of support from the President.
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Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby dwgknz on Sat 4th Mar 1:17pm

Dougal wrote:What is HINKY?


Trump is hinky.
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Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby dwgknz on Sat 4th Mar 1:23pm

Dougal wrote:Likewise for emotion. Can you give me any specifics on what you mean by that. I haven't seen him crying or screaming on camera yet.


The big orange buffoon wrote:My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person -- always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible!


That's emotion, he hasn't engaged his mind before tweeting and crossed some pretty big ethical boundaries!
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Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby Velocipedestrian on Sat 4th Mar 6:45pm

Dougal wrote:What is HINKY?


H I N
N plus one!

K E Y
Why? Because we have opinions!
images.jpg
Velocipedestrian
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Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby Dougal on Sat 4th Mar 7:43pm

dwgknz wrote:The fears in the Rust Belt are globalisation and mobilisation. One that the remaining factories and plants will close down and the other that immigrants are taking jobs and a large proportion of the countries resources whereas those who have invested their lives into the country but don't live in the major cities will miss out. Trump played on these by saying that he would be bring manufacturing back to the US and will restrict immigration.


That appears to be a very real problem. Do you think it's not important?

He does appear to be making that promise of bringing manufacturing back. Carrier reversed their plans after meetings with Trump even before he took office. The car makers all appear to have reversed plans.

That's major for every location involved. For each employee of a factory type job there is a multiple of people employed in support industries. Just look at Dunedin with the loss of Hillside Engineering Workshops to see how far the ripples spread and how fast capability is lost.

Job losses are serious business. As serious as it gets for communities.

dwgknz wrote:But even if manufacturing and processing come back to these areas the jobs won't. The factories left when automation demanded new technology, companies looked to build new factories in places where it was cheaper, but they didn't have the same labour requirement. The same happened with coal and steel. He can't bring the jobs back so should've focused on transformation rather than promoting the past.


That's not how automation works. I'm a Mechanical Engineer who has worked in Automation. It is extremely difficult and extremely expensive. You can also only automate core processes which are repeititive and have the numbers to make it work. The jobs of management, administration, maintenance, repair, cleaning, setting, deliveries, warehousing etc are not possible to automate and make up a huge share of the workforce at any factory site.

The huge investment in creating or upgrading an automated factory (10's of millions) is itself a massive economic boom to a region.

Regarding coal and steel. I recall an announcement that all new pipelines in the US must be made of American steel. There are two main ingredients in steel. Iron and Carbon. That carbon is coal and it is mined from coal mines.

Opponents of coal either forget that or just don't understand. It's hard to know which. They like to pretend that coal is only used as a dirty form of power generation. The truth is very different.
The seat you sit on, the computer you use, the springs and tips in your ball point pens are all containing steel made from coal. It is all around you. It is even used to package food.
Feel free to try and avoid anything made from steel.

Note I'm not supporting Trump here. I'm simply correcting some major misconceptions which people are using to frame incorrect opinions.

dwgknz wrote:His speeches regardless of location or occasion are full of self aggrandisement, attack of others and an opportunity to express his reality of things. He doesn't set out his agenda, plan or vision for the nation. He uses catch phrases and appeals to peoples emotions rather than their minds. They're simply total BS.


Are you new to politics?
But I think the agenda and plan were laid out and following that plan is generating some heat. First time I can recall a politician being hated for keeping promises!

dwgknz wrote:Let's not kid ourselves, when someone spends 18 months saying hes going to issue a travel ban to Muslims and then actually does so under a different guise, it is what it is. Call a spade a spade. I fundamentally don't disagree with what you're saying, yes if the US can't ensure security then develop systems to protect it. But go about it the right way. Don't create fire brand policies behind closed doors without engaging lawmakers and experts and opening things up to debate. The ban was a grenade lobbed at the legislature and government more so than the 7 countries or Muslim's in general, get on my train or I will do it alone. Once again the tactic worked, the ban failed but the Republican party fell into line. But it was just a taster of what he's prepared to do and how much thought is actually gone into it (ie. the whole dual citizen FU)


If it were a travel ban for Muslims then it would be for all Muslims no? Temporarily banning was it 7 out of over 50 majority muslim countries doesn't really fit with that.

Tell me about this "making policy without engaging lawmakers and experts"? Because it's not possible to run any business without a solid grip on the laws and regulations. To run a multi-billion dollar empire requires having a massive team dedicated to exactly that purpose. Especially in law-suit happy America and even more-so in politics.

I think that a massive team of lawmakers and experts have trolled through every piece of legislation. Why do you think otherwise.

dwgknz wrote:I think that he has made it such an uncomfortable place for the government that leaks will become more frequent and relevant. Rather than addressing the issue, why his experts don't like what's going on, he's attacking the whistle-blowers (anonymous or otherwise). I don't recall one fact from the lying media that wasn't backed by some form of document from his government. I think the WaPO summed it up nicely when they said Democracy Dies in the Dark.


I can imagine a political office being a very uncomfortable place for anyone disloyal to a new administration. Which happens all over the world following changes of govt. What do you see as the solution there?

If someone freely leaks information, they've basically thrown their career and job away. To me you're a whistle-blower if you expose illegal activity. Torture, illegal surveillance etc. Snowden was a whistle-blower. Disgruntled staff leaking the boss's whereabouts to the press aren't.

dwgknz wrote:The army is the latest issue. As the Commander in Chief of the armed forces he has supreme operational command of the armed forces. He signed of for the Yemen raid so for him to now use terms such as "they lost Ryan" creates a huge schism between the executive and the army. It's the kind of thing that will cause the armed forces to become far less willing to do anything that has any chance at failure due to the perceived lack of support from the President.


Can you show me who in the military is framing the event this way?

dwgknz wrote:
The big orange buffoon wrote:My daughter Ivanka has been treated so unfairly by @Nordstrom. She is a great person -- always pushing me to do the right thing! Terrible!


That's emotion, he hasn't engaged his mind before tweeting and crossed some pretty big ethical boundaries!


I'd probably call that calculated rather than an emotional outburst. Looks to have come from his personal twatter account: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... wsrc%5Etfw

What's with the petty jabs at Trump? They detract from your arguments.
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 6 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby philstar on Sat 4th Mar 11:42pm

Dougal wrote:You honestly believe that Trump isn't super intelligent or a good leader? Have you been paying attention at all? Owning 50 rental houses in NZ ain't really the same as building a billion dollar empire (from a $1M loan) and winning an election against all odds.

do you actually believe trump is a good businessman? and a 1 million dollar loan is all he got from his father (i think he even claims a 1 million start). I will give you he is vary good at selling himself.
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"misanthropic"
Member for: 11 years 8 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby dwgknz on Sun 5th Mar 1:37am

Dougal wrote:


I believe that the traditional blue collar states getting left behind as the world progresses is a very real problem. The fact that Trump is willing to introduce protectionist policies to maintain whats left rather than grow for the future does worry me. Globalisation and unrestricted trade barriers are hugely important and I can only see them becoming more so in the future. Job losses are a big issue, but sustainable job growth is bigger. The fact that Trump is willing (and this is conjecture) blackmail companies with the threat of tariffs to remain in the US is worrying, it's not sustainable. The other way he's done it would be economic incentives, which I'd be more supportive of, but that's a bit too neo-liberal for him.

A big part of why I'm worried is about Trump is that moving to the US is a real possibility for us. My wife has a key client who is an Australian who has set up his company in the US. She works mainly with their New York office delivering leadership training to companies to the very sharp end of the fortune 500 companies. She's good at what she does so her work takes her everywhere. Last week she was in Seattle, this morning she had to take off to Singapore. If she's going to spend a week a month there it would be better for us and the kids to be living in the US or at least Canada (got to love the liberal utopia Trudeau is creating). So globalisation in a purely selfish sense is important to me.

In terms of automation, I don't doubt your mechanical engineering and won't challenge it, so let's take that off the table straight away. There's a reason why I, and everyone here, get knowledge from you and shop from Shockcraft. I may overlook the detail on what it's going to take to revive the US steel industry. I know that coke is a key component but that's about where my knowledge reaches. I'm all for statements like all pipeline work has to use US steel, or better still, if and when the wall goes up, that he says it has to be built of US steel. I've got two brother in laws who run scrap yards in Canada who have been storing cars for the past 5 years since Chinese tanked the market by flooding it with their cheap domestic product. The minute the US up their production these guys will crush thousands of cars at a ton each and cash out. They both hate the industry they're in but can't leave when the can only sell scrap for $30/ton. 10 years ago it was upward of $100/ton. If Trump does get his way and revitalises the industry they'll be shipping it all down and retiring.

My business is performance management and transformation, I'm the guy who invariably sits on the end of the keyboard and comes up with gems like, 'hey if we move to the middle of nowhere we'll save $10M' or a personal favourite 'if we take conductors off commuter trains we'll save $90M' (true story - check out the Southern strikes!). It's my job to take a wider view of a situation and consider as many angles as possible. Therefore I see if Trump is successful in reducing red tape he may succeed in luring back companies who have factories nearing the end of their life, which isn't to outlandish considering it's nearly 37 years since 1980. That would be a real coup for him and would change my opinion of him some what. But building in the US has to become cheaper before they start returning. But even then he still won't be addressing the issue on the rust belt of the blue collars workers who are coming up on a 2nd or 3rd generation without work. These aren't the guys who are going to be picking up support and complementary roles when/ if the industry rolls back into town. And so many of them got done over in the GFC, it's a dire part of the country.

Not new to politics, just new to cult of personality politics! There may be a manifesto, but it's hidden. As each day goes by I do sadly believe there is a plan and a method to the madness. What I took to be ravings of a lunatic may actually of been his policy statements!

As above, re ravings of the lunatic, I don't believe the travel ban was anything more than a warning shot for the Muslim ban. It was testing the waters. Also, tell me about this multi-billion dollar empire? Trump is the epitome of law-suit happy America, if something doesn't go his way he either litigates or files for bankruptcy. There's no integrity in his business dealings so I believe his multi-billion dollar empire is just a stack of cards waiting to collapse.

His executive order was put together by Stephen Miller under the guidance of Steve Bannon. It was brazen but not well develop and wreaked havoc on agencies who received it as a shock and was provided it with no operational guidance or time to develop it. Then there were the glaring holes that were picked out of it within hours of implementation. I've spent 20 years working and contracting into central and local government and crown agencies and never has anything ever been implemented that haphazardly in my experience. There was no law maker of policy expert input on it.

Leaks happen when the staff become disengaged from the administration. If your a career intelligence officer who has verified intelligence that the Russian's impacted the election how long will you keep pounding sand listening to a buffoon discount and insult you before taking matters into your own hands. Especially when he stands in front of your memorial wall and argues with the press about how many people turned up at his inauguration. The truth has to get out somehow and if he's going to block it you have to go round him.

I haven't seen anyone in the military framing it that way, but the (liberal lefty) media certainly are. I've heard the sound bites and the many years of leadership learning and training and development I've had to endure in various roles, coupled with what I hear at home and when I've been in similar situations certainly tell me what's going to happen.

Finally wasn't being petty on the last point about Ivanka. I was demonstrating an emotional response. You may think it was more contrived but I don't think he would have risked the reputational damage by doing it. There's no separating @realDonaldTrump with @POTUS, when he's in office for the next 4/8 years they're the same person. And he retweeted the Ivanka message from @POTUS too....

So just blowing up as I type,
The big orange watersports loving buffoon wrote:How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!
dwgknz
User avatar
Member for: 4 years 8 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby dwgknz on Sun 5th Mar 1:37am

Dougal wrote:


I believe that the traditional blue collar states getting left behind as the world progresses is a very real problem. The fact that Trump is willing to introduce protectionist policies to maintain whats left rather than grow for the future does worry me. Globalisation and unrestricted trade barriers are hugely important and I can only see them becoming more so in the future. Job losses are a big issue, but sustainable job growth is bigger. The fact that Trump is willing (and this is conjecture) blackmail companies with the threat of tariffs to remain in the US is worrying, it's not sustainable. The other way he's done it would be economic incentives, which I'd be more supportive of, but that's a bit too neo-liberal for him.

A big part of why I'm worried is about Trump is that moving to the US is a real possibility for us. My wife has a key client who is an Australian who has set up his company in the US. She works mainly with their New York office delivering leadership training to companies to the very sharp end of the fortune 500 companies. She's good at what she does so her work takes her everywhere. Last week she was in Seattle, this morning she had to take off to Singapore. If she's going to spend a week a month there it would be better for us and the kids to be living in the US or at least Canada (got to love the liberal utopia Trudeau is creating). So globalisation in a purely selfish sense is important to me.

In terms of automation, I don't doubt your mechanical engineering and won't challenge it, so let's take that off the table straight away. There's a reason why I, and everyone here, get knowledge from you and shop from Shockcraft. I may overlook the detail on what it's going to take to revive the US steel industry. I know that coke is a key component but that's about where my knowledge reaches. I'm all for statements like all pipeline work has to use US steel, or better still, if and when the wall goes up, that he says it has to be built of US steel. I've got two brother in laws who run scrap yards in Canada who have been storing cars for the past 5 years since Chinese tanked the market by flooding it with their cheap domestic product. The minute the US up their production these guys will crush thousands of cars at a ton each and cash out. They both hate the industry they're in but can't leave when the can only sell scrap for $30/ton. 10 years ago it was upward of $100/ton. If Trump does get his way and revitalises the industry they'll be shipping it all down and retiring.

My business is performance management and transformation, I'm the guy who invariably sits on the end of the keyboard and comes up with gems like, 'hey if we move to the middle of nowhere we'll save $10M' or a personal favourite 'if we take conductors off commuter trains we'll save $90M' (true story - check out the Southern strikes!). It's my job to take a wider view of a situation and consider as many angles as possible. Therefore I see if Trump is successful in reducing red tape he may succeed in luring back companies who have factories nearing the end of their life, which isn't to outlandish considering it's nearly 37 years since 1980. That would be a real coup for him and would change my opinion of him some what. But building in the US has to become cheaper before they start returning. But even then he still won't be addressing the issue on the rust belt of the blue collars workers who are coming up on a 2nd or 3rd generation without work. These aren't the guys who are going to be picking up support and complementary roles when/ if the industry rolls back into town. And so many of them got done over in the GFC, it's a dire part of the country.

Not new to politics, just new to cult of personality politics! There may be a manifesto, but it's hidden. As each day goes by I do sadly believe there is a plan and a method to the madness. What I took to be ravings of a lunatic may actually of been his policy statements!

As above, re ravings of the lunatic, I don't believe the travel ban was anything more than a warning shot for the Muslim ban. It was testing the waters. Also, tell me about this multi-billion dollar empire? Trump is the epitome of law-suit happy America, if something doesn't go his way he either litigates or files for bankruptcy. There's no integrity in his business dealings so I believe his multi-billion dollar empire is just a stack of cards waiting to collapse.

His executive order was put together by Stephen Miller under the guidance of Steve Bannon. It was brazen but not well develop and wreaked havoc on agencies who received it as a shock and was provided it with no operational guidance or time to develop it. Then there were the glaring holes that were picked out of it within hours of implementation. I've spent 20 years working and contracting into central and local government and crown agencies and never has anything ever been implemented that haphazardly in my experience. There was no law maker of policy expert input on it.

Leaks happen when the staff become disengaged from the administration. If your a career intelligence officer who has verified intelligence that the Russian's impacted the election how long will you keep pounding sand listening to a buffoon discount and insult you before taking matters into your own hands. Especially when he stands in front of your memorial wall and argues with the press about how many people turned up at his inauguration. The truth has to get out somehow and if he's going to block it you have to go round him.

I haven't seen anyone in the military framing it that way, but the (liberal lefty) media certainly are. I've heard the sound bites and the many years of leadership learning and training and development I've had to endure in various roles, coupled with what I hear at home and when I've been in similar situations certainly tell me what's going to happen.

Finally wasn't being petty on the last point about Ivanka. I was demonstrating an emotional response. You may think it was more contrived but I don't think he would have risked the reputational damage by doing it. There's no separating @realDonaldTrump with @POTUS, when he's in office for the next 4/8 years they're the same person. And he retweeted the Ivanka message from @POTUS too....

So just blowing up as I type,
The big orange watersports loving buffoon wrote:How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!
dwgknz
User avatar
Member for: 4 years 8 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby Wobbler on Sun 5th Mar 8:02am

dwgknz wrote: Globalisation and unrestricted trade barriers are hugely important and I can only see them becoming more so in the future.


Why?

Do you think its cool being able to treat people in other countries like slaves so they can build cheap electronics and clothing?
Wobbler
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Member for: 12 years 0 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby dwgknz on Sun 5th Mar 9:50am

Globilisation is important because of the efficiencies created in the manfacturing and production of goods, small countries are able to compete in the world due to specialisation. New Zealand is able to be wealthy because we're able to focus on a few things that we're good at (relatively there's certainly things we need to improve in dairy).

But your examples broken, you get to choose ethical companies, you're not forced to purchase from anyone. And you far more influence through globalisation to prevent that than if it was just isolated to domestic products. Global companies have the leverage to make changes.
dwgknz
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Member for: 4 years 8 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby Wobbler on Sun 5th Mar 9:54am

Dairy for new zealand is a prime example of why globalisation is bad, we produce so much more milk than we ever need and the price has been the fucking of our rivers and waterways. The profits have been shuffled to a selected few and everyone else is left to pickup the cost.

Do you think foxxconn is a good employer? Apple hasnt been able to make them sort their shit out who do you think could possibly leverage them to make changes?
Wobbler
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Member for: 12 years 0 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby Dougal on Mon 6th Mar 8:52am

philstar wrote:do you actually believe trump is a good businessman? and a 1 million dollar loan is all he got from his father (i think he even claims a 1 million start). I will give you he is vary good at selling himself.


I have no idea what the finer details were of Trump's initial loans or inheritance. But he is a phenomenal businessman. There are only a handful of people on the planet as successful.

I know it goes against the psyche of many, but it is perfectly acceptable to acknowledge someones success even if you don't like the person or how it was acheived.

dwgknz wrote:I believe that the traditional blue collar states getting left behind as the world progresses is a very real problem. The fact that Trump is willing to introduce protectionist policies to maintain whats left rather than grow for the future does worry me. Globalisation and unrestricted trade barriers are hugely important and I can only see them becoming more so in the future. Job losses are a big issue, but sustainable job growth is bigger. The fact that Trump is willing (and this is conjecture) blackmail companies with the threat of tariffs to remain in the US is worrying, it's not sustainable. The other way he's done it would be economic incentives, which I'd be more supportive of, but that's a bit too neo-liberal for him.


The whole globalism vs protectionism argument is huge and not one I want to get into. An individuals own beliefs (let us be frank here, a persons ideologies usually mirror the system that advantages them the most) are a valid reason to oppose another ideology.

But they are not a reason to scream, protest, throw insults and toys. I'm not accusing you of this. But many others have done exactly that.

I think though you need to look up the definition of blackmail. Action/reaction is not blackmail. An example was telling Ford Mo Co that if they moved production from Detroit to Mexico then he'd slap on tariffs.
It's legally quite different to telling the Ford Mo Co CEO that if he moves production to Mexico he'll publish those photos he got 10 years back. Though the result could possibly be the same!

The primary benefactor of globalism are corporations big enough to move manufacturing and services (like call centres) to the lowest wage countries possible while simultaneously moving profits to the countries with the lowest tax rates. It's not about efficiencies at all. It's about dollars.
Conversely the primary benefactors of protectionism are governments big enough to swing it and people living in those regions. Increased velocity of circulation, higher employment, higher tax take etc.

dwgknz wrote:I've got two brother in laws who run scrap yards in Canada who have been storing cars for the past 5 years since Chinese tanked the market by flooding it with their cheap domestic product. The minute the US up their production these guys will crush thousands of cars at a ton each and cash out. They both hate the industry they're in but can't leave when the can only sell scrap for $30/ton. 10 years ago it was upward of $100/ton. If Trump does get his way and revitalises the industry they'll be shipping it all down and retiring.


If you ignore the blip of the last 10 years (leading up to the GFC) then scrap steel has always been a marginal business. It's a commodity. 1 ton of scrap from India is the same as 1 ton of scrap from Canada. We've had interesting times for the last decade as China ramped up and spiked (then crashed) the steel market. Sending shockwaves through not only the scrap industries. But the mining industries (Australia etc).
I don't think that spike is coming back.

dwgknz wrote:So just blowing up as I type,
The big orange watersports loving buffoon wrote:How low has President Obama gone to tapp my phones during the very sacred election process. This is Nixon/Watergate. Bad (or sick) guy!


This election just keeps on giving.
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 6 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby mudguard on Mon 6th Mar 2:26pm

Dougal wrote:
philstar wrote:do you actually believe trump is a good businessman? and a 1 million dollar loan is all he got from his father (i think he even claims a 1 million start). I will give you he is vary good at selling himself.


I have no idea what the finer details were of Trump's initial loans or inheritance. But he is a phenomenal businessman. There are only a handful of people on the planet as successful.

I know it goes against the psyche of many, but it is perfectly acceptable to acknowledge someones success even if you don't like the person or how it was acheived.


I think one of the more perplexing issues with Trump are his personal finances, many suspect he's highly geared. Now there's nothing wrong with that, if you owe a million against ten million in property then that's great. However he is reluctant to reveal his exact status (by not releasing his tax returns), he is reluctant to hand over control of his existing companies to be managed by a blind trust. The old saying about wealth is you don't know who is wearing togs until the tide goes out. All flash and no cash...

But who knows, from a personal point of view I feel he is a bully and generally an unpleasant individual. But I don't get to vote for him, and I'm not sure we'll feel any ripples on our side of the pond, the US has always been fiercely protectionist and Trump isn't going to change that. I'm not sure he can resurrect American jobs, the horse has bolted. No one will pay for a US made iPhone for example.
mudguard
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Member for: 14 years 4 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby Conners on Mon 6th Mar 2:32pm

This has turned into the best tl:dr thread ever.
Conners
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"Seeing Double"
Member for: 14 years 4 months

Re: The Unofficial Vorb Trump Poll

Postby Dougal on Mon 6th Mar 2:46pm

mudguard wrote:
Dougal wrote:
philstar wrote:do you actually believe trump is a good businessman? and a 1 million dollar loan is all he got from his father (i think he even claims a 1 million start). I will give you he is vary good at selling himself.


I have no idea what the finer details were of Trump's initial loans or inheritance. But he is a phenomenal businessman. There are only a handful of people on the planet as successful.

I know it goes against the psyche of many, but it is perfectly acceptable to acknowledge someones success even if you don't like the person or how it was acheived.


I think one of the more perplexing issues with Trump are his personal finances, many suspect he's highly geared. Now there's nothing wrong with that, if you owe a million against ten million in property then that's great. However he is reluctant to reveal his exact status (by not releasing his tax returns), he is reluctant to hand over control of his existing companies to be managed by a blind trust. The old saying about wealth is you don't know who is wearing togs until the tide goes out. All flash and no cash...

But who knows, from a personal point of view I feel he is a bully and generally an unpleasant individual. But I don't get to vote for him, and I'm not sure we'll feel any ripples on our side of the pond, the US has always been fiercely protectionist and Trump isn't going to change that. I'm not sure he can resurrect American jobs, the horse has bolted. No one will pay for a US made iPhone for example.


The one bit of evidence we have. His companies sustained a billion dollar trading loss in the GFC and survived.

Being highly geared only matters to normal people.
If you owe the bank $500k and you can't pay then you have a problem.
If you owe the bank $500M and you can't pay then they have a problem.
Dougal
Member for: 14 years 6 months

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