Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby phunk on Mon 5/Jul/10 4:07pm

Simpleone wrote:When will this "fragile carbon BS" debate finally die? :butbut:


When people dont feel the need to rationalise not being able to afford it by discrediting it.
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby Oli on Mon 5/Jul/10 4:08pm

And when idiots lose their internet access. :D
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby wuffy on Mon 5/Jul/10 4:11pm

Simpleone wrote:This weekend I rag dolled a new carbon frame it got a scratch which will be fine, hit a few rocks not worried.

:crazy:
Oli wrote:And when idiots lose their internet access. :D

I'm on unlimited, HA! :D
Last edited by wuffy on Mon 5/Jul/10 4:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby Scaredy_Cat on Mon 5/Jul/10 4:12pm

[hijack]

Can anyone offer any thoughts as to why no manufacturer (that I'm aware of, anyway) makes a 13" carbon bike? Just lack of demand?

[/hijack]

Nothing to see here :paranoid:
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby Simpleone on Mon 5/Jul/10 4:12pm

phunk wrote:
Simpleone wrote:When will this "fragile carbon BS" debate finally die? :butbut:


When people dont feel the need to rationalise not being able to afford it by discrediting it.


Or when the "sales person" has made a claim that the cheaper carbon is the same, because carbon is carbon, right, all the same, shit. Same as Alloy 5,6,7000 series (and various sub groups and heat treatments of) and steel, all the same shit, right?! :butbut:
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby XCrazy on Mon 5/Jul/10 4:48pm

Scaredy_Cat wrote:[hijack]

Can anyone offer any thoughts as to why no manufacturer (that I'm aware of, anyway) makes a 13" carbon bike? Just lack of demand?

[/hijack]

Nothing to see here :paranoid:


I'm going to go with low demand and high cost. ie not many people need frames that small and there is generally quite a high cost per mold which is different for every frame size
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby NzidaR on Mon 5/Jul/10 5:04pm

XCrazy wrote:
Scaredy_Cat wrote:[hijack]

Can anyone offer any thoughts as to why no manufacturer (that I'm aware of, anyway) makes a 13" carbon bike? Just lack of demand?

[/hijack]

Nothing to see here :paranoid:


I'm going to go with low demand and high cost. ie not many people need frames that small and there is generally quite a high cost per mold which is different for every frame size
:withstupid:
NSMB wrote:Frame size choices have changed significantly on the carbon model. For carbon production cost and simplicity reasons Santa Cruz designed the large size so that the Syndicate riders (the smallest is Josh Bryceland I at 6’2”) could ride it. Making a specific mould for the Syndicate is a $35,000 endeavour. This means the large carbon bike has a full 1.6” longer wheelbase than the aluminum large.


That is what Santa Cruz said about their Carbon V10. If they're changing normal (SML) sizes because of the cost of carbon molds, it would probably put xxs XC frames in the 'not worth it basket as well'.
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby Analog on Mon 5/Jul/10 5:16pm

Wow, I really invoked the rage of everybody there! Sorry about that. I'm more than happy to be told I'm wrong - obviously my thoughts don't reflect the state of technology at the moment. I don't post round here that much, so perhaps was unaware that this was such a sensitive topic. I also own a carbon road bike...
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby OAP on Mon 5/Jul/10 5:33pm

Lahar, come back Lahar!

(said with slight sense of sarcasm and a touch of irony ;) )
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby Wobbler on Mon 5/Jul/10 5:40pm

Analog wrote:Wow, I really invoked the rage of everybody there! Sorry about that. I'm more than happy to be told I'm wrong - obviously my thoughts don't reflect the state of technology at the moment. I don't post round here that much, so perhaps was unaware that this was such a sensitive topic. I also own a carbon road bike...


Your thinking was out of date years ago...
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby 12HAVASUNDAY on Mon 5/Jul/10 6:04pm

Robbie wrote:You bought the wrong brands.


pretty much
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby FSR_Man on Mon 5/Jul/10 6:34pm

Analog wrote:I've often wondered why carbon is used in mountain bikes. Road bikes - sure. It's light, you can design where the strength is etc. It seems to me that the problem with carbon is that it is quite brittle, and once it's structure is compromised, everything quickly goes pear shaped. Carbon is fine on a road bike or in a mast or something where you generally don't expect point impacts, but on a mountain bike, you kind of expect to crash into stuff or have stuff flicked up. The shock loadings on jumps etc must be pretty severe as well. This would seem to make a material that is reliant on structural integrity for its safe operation a pretty risky choice for mountain bike frames.

Sure, you can destroy steel/ally/titanium frames as well (and sometimes spectacularly!), but it seems to me that in general the material is less prone to damage from things that are typically found when you're out mountain biking. Also, when the frame does fail the failure mode is not so brutal.

Do other people think this as well??


Not at all. carbon is sick! Currently own a stumpy fsr carbon and have previously owned the same in a hardtail, crashed a couple times, have had plenty of rocks flick up, no dramas at all.

you will also find many carbon mtbs will have a "protective" outer layer of carbon. normally it is a woven layer that is a little bit more durable too.

Not to mention the ride qality of a carbon frame is way nicer.

CARBON FTW
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby FSR_Man on Mon 5/Jul/10 6:39pm

Simpleone wrote:
phunk wrote:
Simpleone wrote:When will this "fragile carbon BS" debate finally die? :butbut:


When people dont feel the need to rationalise not being able to afford it by discrediting it.


Or when the "sales person" has made a claim that the cheaper carbon is the same, because carbon is carbon, right, all the same, shit. Same as Alloy 5,6,7000 series (and various sub groups and heat treatments of) and steel, all the same shit, right?! :butbut:

eww azzuri!
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby Simonk on Mon 5/Jul/10 6:41pm

I bought a 'cracked' Trek OCLV MTB frame (only $500!) and used it for a whole National Series and a world cup - no worries. Then in 1996 I got my hands on a carbon DBR which developed a couple of small cracks after three years - have carried on using it, mostly for touring and commuting and I'm still trying to finish it off (and even leant it to Oli and Jonty to try and demo it - no luck). At the moment I have a cracked carbon seatpost on my Schwinn - it cracked about 5 years ago and got a bit worse 2 years ago - over-tightening the clamp above the internal seat-post sleeve. Doh! But it still won't fully break (would have replaced it but a 27.0 with set-back is hard to come by).

Conclusion - carbon fails like any other material, but it also has the potential to hang on very well after moderate abuse (like any other material).

Probably helps that I'm only 70kg and have been lucky enough to score high-end carbon (at dirtbag rates).
Last edited by Simonk on Mon 5/Jul/10 7:58pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Cracked Carbon Thread

Postby sifter on Mon 5/Jul/10 6:51pm

Simonk wrote:I bought a 'cracked' Trek OCLV MTB frame (only $500!) and used it for a whole National Series and a world cup - no worries. Then in 1996 I got my hands on a DBR which developed a couple of small cracks after three years - have carried on using it, mostly for touring and commuting and I'm still trying to finish it off (and even leant it to Oli and Jonty to try and demo it - no luck). At the moment I have a cracked carbon seatpost on my Schwinn - it cracked about 5 years ago and got a bit worse 2 years ago - over-tightening the clamp above the internal seat-post sleeve. Doh! But it still won't fully break (would have replaced it but a 27.0 with set-back is hard to come by).

Conclusion - carbon fails like any other material, but it also has the potential to hang on very well after moderate abuse (like any other material).

Probably helps that I'm only 70kg and have been lucky enough to score high-end carbon (at dirtbag rates).


Do you want me to try to break that DBR? :0
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