Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby Rik on Tue 11/Aug/15 8:50pm

dragon_style wrote:Lurid coloured bike, overly wide bars, flat pedals, full face helmet, massive logo on clothing...oh no, I'm raising an enduro rider.


Those tyres are looking pretty plus sized aswell.
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby Scotty on Wed 12/Aug/15 7:18am

AgrAde wrote:Enduro is a race to test fitness and bike skill.

...and other disciplines aren't?

AgrAde wrote:Some races have more pedalling than others, some have more uplift than others. I don't know why people have a problem with this. It's also a new sport that's learning its limits and building its rules.

It's a new discipline, yes, not a new sport.

AgrAde wrote:I don't really understand the problem with some uplift. Some DH races are won without a chain, while others are impossible. Some XC races are on the flat ground and some are on hills. Every race is different, and the organiser can do whatever they like in my opinion. Most of the big enduro events that have uplift still have big climbs and are still very big days in the saddle.


I think the problpem most people have with uplift (not myself - I hate climbing) is that it's vehicular transportation, which ISN'T riding your bike and is shuttling, which looks, tastes and smells like downhill.

Most established disciplines have pretty well established norms as to what to expect, and at UCI level the courses are even governed by percentages of what course features are required. Like you said, it's a young discipline so it might be a case of working this out.

AgrAde wrote:Why does it matter if it's "what you do anyway?"

It doesn't. This is talkback. :D

AgrAde wrote:Wouldn't you want a race format that is similar to how you normally ride your bike? Wouldn't you want a race format where you can compete on your "do it all" bike? Wouldn't you want R&D money dumped into "do it all" bikes if that's the bike that you'd normally ride? For people like me who want a mountain bike that can hoon around an XC track in the morning and do pedal runs of a DH track in the afternoon, "enduro" is the best thing that's happened to bike development lately.

Again, I ask the question: Wouldn't we have got there anyway? Given no-one seems to be able to put a finger on exactly what enduro is apart from when it's in a poorly-defined race format?

AgrAde wrote:I'm also happy that enduro has made it okay to ride with a half shell helmet with goggles.

No it hasn't. :sly:

To reiterate: I like the idea of what Enduro is supposed to be, I'm just not quite sure what that is.
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby dwgknz on Wed 12/Aug/15 7:28am

scatter wrote:It used to be an XC race where only the downhill sections were timed.
But it's got more and more gnar so now it's basically a DH race where you mostly have to ride your bike to the top of the hill.

One might also say it's a retirement home for has-been downhillers :sneaky:


But wasn't that already called a SUper D race??
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby Scotty on Wed 12/Aug/15 7:42am

Yeah, I didn't mention the Super D thing. I ran a lot of those about five years ago.

As far I can tell it's the closest relative to Enduro, in that Enduro stages are just a bunch of technical Super D races strung together.
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby Conners on Wed 12/Aug/15 7:55am

Scotty wrote:Yeah, I didn't mention the Super D thing. I ran a lot of those about five years ago.

As far I can tell it's the closest relative to Enduro, in that Enduro stages are just a bunch of technical Super D races strung together.

Nailed it - I was about to post "what was the cool format we had for races like Brake Burner?"

Yup. Super D.

AgrAde wrote:i don't know why people have a problem with that.

Says the guy with the "bubblegum" flavoured bike :p
(We're on page two aren't we?)
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby dwgknz on Wed 12/Aug/15 8:09am

Cyan is timeless
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby Slim on Wed 12/Aug/15 8:48am

I thought enduro was the marketing term for 650bx2.5 tires.
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby ryda on Wed 12/Aug/15 10:12am

Slim wrote:I thought enduro was the marketing term for 650bx2.5 tires and 1x.
no thats #Enduro :paranoid:
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby Dougal on Wed 12/Aug/15 10:15am

Enduro is the new All Mountain which was the old Free-ride.

We didn't have hash-tags back then.
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby Wobbler on Wed 12/Aug/15 10:18am

Isnt free-ride just fancy for hucking?

therefore enduro = hucking
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby adikt on Wed 12/Aug/15 10:32am

I just ride & push my limits until I crash, then (assuming I still can) get back to the top & do it again.
Is that hashtagenduro or just, i dunno, mountain biking? :huh:

Does recording all my rides so I can laugh at my failures later make it more or less whatever?
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby Scotty on Wed 12/Aug/15 10:35am

Wobbler wrote:therefore enduro = hucking

:lol:

I like this.
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby AgrAde on Wed 12/Aug/15 11:30am

Scotty wrote:...and other disciplines aren't?

That's all bike racing at the end of the day. My point was that an "enduro" event doesn't need to be so rigidly defined, and as long as it's a full day/multi day event with timed downhill sections and reasonable time on the bike in between, it should be fine. Some venues can run a good course without requiring riders to shuttle between some stages, others would be either asking too much from riders or would have to sacrifice good stages because the riders wouldn't be able to get there.

It's a new discipline, yes, not a new sport.

Chur.

I think the problpem most people have with uplift (not myself - I hate climbing) is that it's vehicular transportation, which ISN'T riding your bike and is shuttling, which looks, tastes and smells like downhill.

Those people can stay on their high horse and go race XC events instead. Any enduro event is significantly different than spending an entire weekend focusing on one five-minute stage, with mechanics and workshops and spare bikes, with qualis and finals, and the pressure is only on two heavily-practiced race runs.

Most established disciplines have pretty well established norms as to what to expect, and at UCI level the courses are even governed by percentages of what course features are required. Like you said, it's a young discipline so it might be a case of working this out.

To reiterate: I like the idea of what Enduro is supposed to be, I'm just not quite sure what that is.

And no one should be looking to the UCI when they're talking about good rules and regulations. Even then there's significant variation - Look at Windham vs Cairns. The first is won by going balls out and not coming off, the second is won by pedalling through the climb in the middle of the track and the final straight. Top level racers should be ready for both events. I haven't seen a high level enduro event where ridiculous fitness didn't matter, or where someone cleaned up on a DH bike. To me that's a good enough sign that it's not an issue.

Again, I ask the question: Wouldn't we have got there anyway? Given no-one seems to be able to put a finger on exactly what enduro is apart from when it's in a poorly-defined race format?

I doubt we would have seen bikes like the Reign, Patrol, Nomad. If we did it wouldn't have been this quickly. There's been a pretty big explosion of bikes that fit the format in the last couple years and it's great.




Conners wrote:Says the guy with the "bubblegum" flavoured bike :p
(We're on page two aren't we?)


Billy Connolly uses his "rock and roll pants" (essentially any pair of pants with wild and unusual color schemes) as Asshole detectors. As he puts it, you walk into a room and the Asshole will break from cover to laugh at your pants. This allows you to identify the asshole and then be able to avoid them for the rest of the evening.
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby Scotty on Wed 12/Aug/15 12:21pm

AgrAde wrote: Any enduro event is significantly different than spending an entire weekend focusing on one five-minute stage, with mechanics and workshops and spare bikes, with qualis and finals, and the pressure is only on two heavily-practiced race runs.

You weren't watching the Crankworx EWS coverage very closely were you?

It was in part what made me do this talkback Tuesday. People were swapping out chainrings and all sorts in a dedicated pit area. It was mental.
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Re: Talkback Tuesday: What Is #enduro? Anyway

Postby AgrAde on Wed 12/Aug/15 12:27pm

Scotty wrote:
AgrAde wrote: Any enduro event is significantly different than spending an entire weekend focusing on one five-minute stage, with mechanics and workshops and spare bikes, with qualis and finals, and the pressure is only on two heavily-practiced race runs.

You weren't watching the Crankworx EWS coverage very closely were you?

It was in part what made me do this talkback Tuesday. People were swapping out chainrings and all sorts in a dedicated pit area. It was mental.


No, you're right. Before the race or during?
Before the race is fine. If a team can afford a pit to prepare a bike for a specific race then that's fine and that's what they've done previously. Between the start of the first stage and the end of the last, I have a problem with that.

I guess this ties in with the question of should practice runs be allowed?

Personally, I say yes - (limited) practice is safer and reduces rider error like missing a turn because the tape wasn't clear etc. Not sure of the role that practice will play in bike setup. Obviously a fair amount. However I don't see a problem with practice/course walk --> change chainring/brake setup --> race day. Both practice and the subsequent bike setup reduces the home advantage.
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