Postby JK2 on Wed 14/Feb/07 3:56pm

and you seem to be forgetting that the court for MPs is the vote of their electorates.
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Postby CrustyMTB on Wed 14/Feb/07 3:58pm

JK2 wrote: in the same way that being able to exceed the speed limit is a perk of the job if you are a cop.

Except a cop needs a good reason to break the speed limit, and without it can be disciplined. Winston Peters doesn't have anyone looking into his numerous dodgy uses of privilege to commit what would be actionable defamation in any other context... Ever heard of the privileges committee censuring an MP for making defamatory statements in the house? I'm not saying it's not a necessity of Parliamentary democracy...
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Postby CaptainCaveman on Wed 14/Feb/07 3:58pm

Slim wrote: And Labour is now a minority government, Sucks to be them :lol:


Better than a minority opposition, though...
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Postby CrustyMTB on Wed 14/Feb/07 3:59pm

JK2 wrote: and you seem to be forgetting that the court for MPs is the vote of their electorates.


You seem to be forgetting that the media is the court reporting/evidentiary basis of that 'judgment' process...
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Postby JK2 on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:05pm

not at all but in some cases the constinuents' views are actually based on evidence other than whatever tv happens to be throwing around at the time.

your argument seems to be that if you just throw enough sht around about someone that based on no real evidence it is ok to make judgements about MPS and that somehow one of the most fundamental principles of a liberal democracy (inocent until proven guilty, fair trial) should be swept aside. I am saying that in a democracy voters actaully have responsibilities too, one of them is to try not to belive every allegation that is aired on the news and another is to keep the principles of fairness in mind before we rush to judgements about people.
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Postby Tama on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:09pm

The only way this can be settled is with a knife fight! :thumbsup:

I'll get the knives...
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Postby CaptainCaveman on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:10pm

Tama wrote: The only way this can be settled is with a knife fight! :thumbsup:

I'll get the knives...


Taito will get an imigrant to fight for him... for free of course, so long as said immigrant cleans up the blood afterwards...
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Postby dhroadie on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:11pm

JK2 wrote: not at all but in some cases the constinuents' views are actually based on evidence other than whatever tv happens to be throwing around at the time.

your argument seems to be that if you just throw enough sht around about someone that based on no real evidence it is ok to make judgements about MPS and that somehow one of the most fundamental principles of a liberal democracy (inocent until proven guilty, fair trial) should be swept aside. I am saying that in a democracy voters actaully have responsibilities too, one of them is to try not to belive every allegation that is aired on the news and another is to keep the principles of fairness in mind before we rush to judgements about people.


oh for fuck's sake. yeah, TV and other media just makes shit up in the hope that if you do it enough, eventually it'll be true.

i'll make as many judgements as i like on someone who enjoys more privileges than i, paid for by my tax, employed as a servant of people like me.
where there's smoke there's fire, and there's a fucking shitload of smoke.
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Postby JK2 on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:16pm

the 60 mins (or 20/20) doco about field had a shtload of unsubstantiated allegations about Field

there were the allegations about david Benson Pope (bully/pervert/panty slut boy)

the running of the so called rumour about the PM's Husband being gay

all the media uncritically repeating allegations made by people. and yeah shit does stick.

for the record my guess is that the police will press charges against Field. and that he is a dodgy fucker.
JK2
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Postby Tama on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:22pm

CaptainCaveman wrote:
Tama wrote: The only way this can be settled is with a knife fight! :thumbsup:

I'll get the knives...


Taito will get an imigrant to fight for him... for free of course, so long as said immigrant cleans up the blood afterwards...

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh dear, I almost popped a rib then...


JK2 wrote:for the record my guess is that the police will press charges against Field. and that he is a dodgy fucker.
Yup, the Labour Party has been remarkably patient with this chimps tea party but considering they're starting to move against Field I'm guessing that there's going to be some solid action against him.
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Postby JK2 on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:25pm

if he was on the list he would have been gone a long time ago I reckon. but given he had a strong mandate to be the MP they pretty much had to sit on their hands (till he broke his party pledge)
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Postby phunk on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:29pm

Largest majority in the country at the last election wasnt it?
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Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:42pm

It's because he is a negro, youz guyz are just racialist.
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Postby JK2 on Wed 14/Feb/07 4:44pm

he was just working in the pacific way. totally appropiate given Auckland is the biggest pacific island centre.

pass the kava
and the lafo
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Postby CrustyMTB on Wed 14/Feb/07 8:54pm

JK2 wrote: your argument seems to be ...that somehow one of the most fundamental principles of a liberal democracy (inocent until proven guilty, fair trial) should be swept aside.

You confuse the criminal and constitutional context.

In terms of criminal prosecutions damn right I believe that innocent until proven guilty, lets not forget the evidentiary rule is beyond reasonable doubt, but giving Field the flick isn't a criminal matter, it's a constitutional one. As such the convention that lawmakers should be beyond reproach when it comes to allegations of graft and abuse of position is probably as important to the rule of law, without it how do we trust that the huge powers that an MP has as part of the fundamental sovereign body aren't being used for their personal gain or our personal detriment?

JK2 wrote:I am saying that in a democracy voters actaully have responsibilities too, one of them is to try not to belive every allegation that is aired on the news and another is to keep the principles of fairness in mind before we rush to judgements about people.

Yes and as a well informed and responsible voter I (and so have you given your later comments) decided on the balance of probabilities that Field has committed acts which justify the police charging him. If he's not convicted that still doesn't mean he hasn't acted in amanner which makes it inappropriate for him to be an MP. In my opinion the criminal burden of proof is too high for constitutional matters...
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