Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby CrustyMTB on Wed 18/Aug/10 7:59pm

schlek1 wrote:CCTV cameras are all over my town anyway and I dont have a problem with them. No Im not a cop but I do like the idea of living in a society where the cops can actually catch the bad pricks before they do some harm and to gather overwhelming evidence after serious crime. This bill will provide the nous for them to do this. Covert cameras are everywhere by the way and not just council or police cameras. Most businesses have them. And I know for sure you wouldnt complain if they were used to catch the offending person who vicitmised you !


Yeah then we can make some camps where we can put the bad people and their wives and kids, to tell them apart from us good people we could make them wear a badge, maybe a yellow star of some sort.

And there are always judges available to give out warrants at very short notice. Maybe if the prosecuting branch of the executive actually used their current powers competently, they might be able to catch the bad people and presecute them just maybe? HTH Champ :)
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby happybaboon on Wed 18/Aug/10 11:35pm

schlek1 wrote:The cops need the power to act at short notice. An example of this would be some sort of serious incident out of normal working hours which requires attention NOW. Not at 8 oclock the next morning when the first judge arrives at court.

Fucking claptrap. If that was the case, they could just have a goddamned judge or a JP on duty at all hours to oversee such "emergency" cases and issue a warrant if it was indeed justified. Even now, if the police really HAD to, I'm sure they could manage to find a judge or a JP to wake up.

Any anyway covert surveillence probably really isn't something the police do in "serious incidents", it's something they do when they want to gather evidence so they can pin charges on people. In a serious incident there is a different rulebook which allows the cops to do a whole lot more in the interests of immediately protecting life.

This sort of shit isn't even acceptable in the United States (see the uproar about GWB's warrantless wire tapping, which is WAY less invasive than warrantless covert camera placing), no fucking way is this an OK thing to have happening in New Zealand.
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby schlek1 on Thu 19/Aug/10 4:57pm

happybaboon wrote:
schlek1 wrote:The cops need the power to act at short notice. An example of this would be some sort of serious incident out of normal working hours which requires attention NOW. Not at 8 oclock the next morning when the first judge arrives at court.

Fucking claptrap. If that was the case, they could just have a goddamned judge or a JP on duty at all hours to oversee such "emergency" cases and issue a warrant if it was indeed justified. Even now, if the police really HAD to, I'm sure they could manage to find a judge or a JP to wake up.

Any anyway covert surveillence probably really isn't something the police do in "serious incidents", it's something they do when they want to gather evidence so they can pin charges on people. In a serious incident there is a different rulebook which allows the cops to do a whole lot more in the interests of immediately protecting life.

This sort of shit isn't even acceptable in the United States (see the uproar about GWB's warrantless wire tapping, which is WAY less invasive than warrantless covert camera placing), no fucking way is this an OK thing to have happening in New Zealand.



1/ A jp wont sign anything high level like this. Even finding a judge out of hours creates an unacceptable delay in a serious situation.
2/ They are for only serious incidents and are aimed at offences with penalties 7 years plus.
3/ Who gives a fuck about what is/is not acceptable in the US.
4/ If you are really against it that much have you done anything about it other than whinge on vorb??
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby sifter on Thu 19/Aug/10 5:40pm

schlek1 wrote:
happybaboon wrote:
schlek1 wrote:The cops need the power to act at short notice. An example of this would be some sort of serious incident out of normal working hours which requires attention NOW. Not at 8 oclock the next morning when the first judge arrives at court.

Fucking claptrap. If that was the case, they could just have a goddamned judge or a JP on duty at all hours to oversee such "emergency" cases and issue a warrant if it was indeed justified. Even now, if the police really HAD to, I'm sure they could manage to find a judge or a JP to wake up.

Any anyway covert surveillence probably really isn't something the police do in "serious incidents", it's something they do when they want to gather evidence so they can pin charges on people. In a serious incident there is a different rulebook which allows the cops to do a whole lot more in the interests of immediately protecting life.

This sort of shit isn't even acceptable in the United States (see the uproar about GWB's warrantless wire tapping, which is WAY less invasive than warrantless covert camera placing), no fucking way is this an OK thing to have happening in New Zealand.



1/ A jp wont sign anything high level like this. Even finding a judge out of hours creates an unacceptable delay in a serious situation.
2/ They are for only serious incidents and are aimed at offences with penalties 7 years plus.
3/ Who gives a fuck about what is/is not acceptable in the US.
4/ If you are really against it that much have you done anything about it other than whinge on vorb??


Re 4, I'm pretty certain Babs wouldn't have voted for National...
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby happybaboon on Thu 19/Aug/10 6:08pm

1) Appropriately trained JP's can remand people in custody and perform other minor legal tasks. Any non-Police oversight would be a vast improvement upon none at all.

2) As I pointed out before, what kind of incident is both urgent enough that it can't wait until a judge (of whom there are probably hundreds, if not thousands about) is found and yet not urgent enough that covert surveillence is required for three days? Finding a judge/JP would take far less time than finding the time and opportunity to break into someones house and install hidden cameras.

Furthermore without some sort of oversight this sort of action by the Police/SIS could remain completely hidden from public view - it would be up to the police to decide when and where "serious offending" may be taking place without any outside consideration. Cops could put cameras wherever they damn well please for up to three days, then remove them in secret with no one being any the wiser. If a camera WERE located they'd just be able to say "Well, we thought he was making meth! HONEST!"

3) Loads of people. The best way to measure our own freedoms and human rights is to compare them to what happens elsewhere. Generally NZ's got a way better record than the US with regards to such freedoms... But this sort of carry on would cause an uproar in the us.

4) Funny you should ask. I made a submission to the select committee, emailed same to the local MP, talked to a newspaper man friend at the pub last night (who I guess I hope will write an editorial or some such thing about this).
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby Oli on Thu 19/Aug/10 6:29pm

Good stuff Babs. :thumbsup:
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby phunk on Thu 19/Aug/10 7:25pm

Nice one Babs :thumbsup:
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Thu 19/Aug/10 7:47pm

Who voted these National party chumps in anyway?
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby bubbaa on Thu 19/Aug/10 8:07pm

happybaboon wrote:1) Appropriately trained JP's can remand people in custody and perform other minor legal tasks. Any non-Police oversight would be a vast improvement upon none at all.

2) As I pointed out before, what kind of incident is both urgent enough that it can't wait until a judge (of whom there are probably hundreds, if not thousands about) is found and yet not urgent enough that covert surveillence is required for three days? Finding a judge/JP would take far less time than finding the time and opportunity to break into someones house and install hidden cameras.

Furthermore without some sort of oversight this sort of action by the Police/SIS could remain completely hidden from public view - it would be up to the police to decide when and where "serious offending" may be taking place without any outside consideration. Cops could put cameras wherever they damn well please for up to three days, then remove them in secret with no one being any the wiser. If a camera WERE located they'd just be able to say "Well, we thought he was making meth! HONEST!"

3) Loads of people. The best way to measure our own freedoms and human rights is to compare them to what happens elsewhere. Generally NZ's got a way better record than the US with regards to such freedoms... But this sort of carry on would cause an uproar in the us.

4) Funny you should ask. I made a submission to the select committee, emailed same to the local MP, talked to a newspaper man friend at the pub last night (who I guess I hope will write an editorial or some such thing about this).


:withstupid:

especially

Finding a judge/JP would take far less time than finding the time and opportunity to break into someones house and install hidden cameras.
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby CrustyMTB on Thu 19/Aug/10 8:20pm

schlek1 wrote:1/ A jp wont sign anything high level like this. Even finding a judge out of hours creates an unacceptable delay in a serious situation.
Finding a judge involves the cop picking up a phone, in fact it is considerably easier to find a judge than a competent police camera tech currently in South Auckland.

You may be happy to swap freedoms for a perception of security, but others are not, from the posts you've made I sincerely believe your judgment about such issues is flawed.
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby nostromo on Thu 19/Aug/10 11:41pm

wuffy wrote:
nostromo wrote:Cool, spycam away for all I care.


Precisely.

Gives me all the more reasons to prance around the house naked :satan:

With the bananas and the cream?
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby pissface on Fri 20/Aug/10 10:13am

schlek1 wrote:4/ If you are really against it that much have you done anything about it other than whinge on vorb??
as the original "whinger on vorb" in this instance, I can point to the raised awareness in this sector of the community, since the newspapers have chosen to first bury it in the tech news, and then report it as the legislation having been softened from the first time (and avoiding giving details of what is still in), and the likelihood of the topic at least being discussed, plus more submissions being made.

the "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" argument is a well known and fallacious misdirection in privacy arguments, look it up on the internets. (as is the "i have nothing to hide" - great, prance around naked all you want, your lack of inhibition is no grounds for taking away the privacy of others, is no argument that others have no right to expect to be able to without being watched)
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby Wobbler on Fri 20/Aug/10 10:22am

E Dogg Capizzle wrote:Who voted these National party chumps in anyway?


Where is my tax cuts??????///forwardslash
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Re: Spycams In Your Home For 3 Days With No Warrant

Postby pissface on Fri 20/Aug/10 10:37am

E Dogg Capizzle wrote:Who voted these National party chumps in anyway?



Phunk!!
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