Should the Track Nationals be Split into 2 seperate events?

Yes
3
9%
No
27
82%
Don't no
0
No votes
Don't care
3
9%
 
Total voters : 33

Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby its that guy on Sat 6/Feb/10 10:36am

no
its that guy
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"Lurkin"
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby gydey on Sat 6/Feb/10 10:50am

Well I will put the cat amongst the pigeons....

Agree 100% Floyd

Personally I dont believe the champs should be split...for a number of reasons..

The facts are that the split has happened all because BikeNZ believe they need the UCI points that a National title gives. My belief is that if the riders are good enough, their results at World Cups would accumulate more than enough points to qualify for worlds... if they are borderline...they probably dont deserve to go??

1. I think juniors need to be able to watch their idols and learn from them in terms of race preparation and race tactics.

2. At present it is just a glorified NZ track endurance team camp with invites out to the centres

3. The cost to families who have elite and junior riders make it cost prohibitive

4. The cost to centres organising 2 lots of accomodation and staff is cost prohibitive.

5. If time is a consideration, then drop all the masters events, as masters are catered for at the NZ Masters games

6. The programme now is that cramped that you are asking your track endurance riders to double up with 2 major events (and qualifying ) per day..and subsequently there may be a drop off in performance
gydey
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby gydey on Sat 6/Feb/10 3:38pm

My understanding is that it was put forward to the National AGM (I think from the High Performance Team, and subsequently voted on by the centres). The only way to change it is to get your centre to put in a remit now, and convince the centres that its not in the best interest of NZ Track Cycling to split the Nationals and vote accordingly. Clearly there are a few centres who have their members being coersed by some of the powers that be in cycling... so its really up to the riders, parents and supporters to ensure that the centres know their views.

Make no mistake though..the change was purely to give our international riders the chance to pick up easy UCI points...and not for the good of the sport
gydey
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby Speedanator on Sat 6/Feb/10 4:16pm

You no, neither event's have even been run yet.

Let's face it, people don’t like change and they are often quick to trash new things before they have actually experienced them.

There maybe some positives in separating the events and countries like Australia, England and the US run their track nationals seperate.
Speedanator
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby gydey on Sat 6/Feb/10 4:32pm

Yes we will have to wait... but lets look at the probabliity...

no womens team sprint..is that good for womens track cycling?
maybe afield of 3 competitive women in the kerin..is that good?
overlapping of key events ie mens points and IP..is that good and will it be detrimental to performance
less recovery between events... is that they key for world class performances

I agree with your sentiments gems re change....but if it aint broke...why try and fix it by having change for the benefit of the minority??

Australia have their elite and U19 track Nats together... is that good? Look at the numbers...hardly inspiring. But at least with the 19s running at the same meet their elite can get in some recovery.

I read what another person wrote, and in my view is right on the button....NZ Track Cycling just isnt big enough to split events.... and seeing as we are talking about NZ reps and selections.. and high performance from U15 to elite, there really is no place for masters racing here as they are catered for in another meeting.

I know...purely speculation at this stage...next week, we will know :-)
gydey
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby Speedanator on Sat 6/Feb/10 4:42pm

---!
Last edited by Speedanator on Sat 6/Feb/10 4:59pm, edited 1 time in total.
Speedanator
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby gydey on Sat 6/Feb/10 4:47pm

----
gydey
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby Daddywarbucks on Sat 6/Feb/10 8:05pm

I'm with Gydey on this one.
Daddywarbucks
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby disoriented on Sat 6/Feb/10 8:56pm

It could be a good thing that there split, as might mean that club/age grade part of nats may go to another venue than just invercargill, which is a pain in the arse and expensive to get to.
disoriented
Member for: 6 years 7 months

Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby DerrickN on Sat 6/Feb/10 9:10pm

gydey wrote:My understanding is that it was put forward to the National AGM (I think from the High Performance Team, and subsequently voted on by the centres). The only way to change it is to get your centre to put in a remit now, and convince the centres that its not in the best interest of NZ Track Cycling to split the Nationals and vote accordingly. Clearly there are a few centres who have their members being coersed by some of the powers that be in cycling... so its really up to the riders, parents and supporters to ensure that the centres know their views.

Make no mistake though..the change was purely to give our international riders the chance to pick up easy UCI points...and not for the good of the sport


I was a delegate at the CNZ AGM - as I recall from the minutes, it was Southland who tabled the proposal to split the champs as there was too much congestion in the existing single champs.They then promptly proposed to add more events into the Age Group Champs !! By the way, Canterbury delegates voted against the split. As a spin off from this proposal, the HP team proposed the timing of the Elite Track Nationals so that it would be before the end of the World Cup Series and therefore eligible for UCI points (recall mention of the fact this would save money by not having to send teams to Copenhagen, or wherever)
Agree with all the points Terry makes and also think that in an indoor veleodrome there is scope to run 3 sessions a day to fit events in to the programme. Surely it would have been more cost effective even to extend the champs a day or two rather than running two separate events within a few weeks of each other.
As others have said, though, this is year one of the new scheme, and we should review how things have gone and perhaps discuss at the next CNZ AGM (in Christchurch) in May.
DerrickN
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby Fergie on Sat 6/Feb/10 9:12pm

Then we step back in time and the kids don't get an opportunity to test themselves against the current National records. That track is sooo much faster and also allows for a direct comparison to International times for our U19 riders. Also shows us who can mix it on a 250m track and race tactically. On Denton Park you can f**k up royally and still win while any mistakes on Invers get punished, more so with the higher speeds.

Other centres need to show some initiative and get more indoor tracks built!
Fergie
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby gydey on Sun 7/Feb/10 7:23am

Agree with you Ferg. I heard a rumour from a good source that SPARC were considering investing in a board track in the North Island, and the likely venue is Palmy as it has the testing facilities and the likes available.

I am a huge advocate as with Ferg, that National Champs must be at our best track (indoor). The major reason as Ferg suggests is that it is important to developing our elite by gauging how good our age group riders are my means of times posted.

In the bad old days of NZ cycling, there was an expectation that if you won a NZ title then you should go to a Junior Worlds and the likes irrespective of whether your times were of international standard or not. This changed in 2005 when we raised the bar and made time qualification standards to gain selection..and this has been continually raised over the years..and now NZ is one of the super powers of track cycling.

Finally, again, make no mistake...Nationals are for the best of the best...to find a champion of each grade..be it the fastest (sprint) , strongest (IP) or whatever...it must always be at an indoor track so we see how fast our riders are...and if that means Invercargill each year...then so be it. I would far rather see an U19 IP won in 3-20, than 3-45 on Auckland, Levin, or Denton
gydey
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby Fergie on Sun 7/Feb/10 8:40am

One upside is that good fellas like Michael Vink, Alan Williams and Chad Adair (and others) are able to loan their equipment to the Juniors for their Nationals. We really appreciate that!
Fergie
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby gydey on Sun 7/Feb/10 10:57am

why hasnt Allan Williams raced?? He was made for a kilo and IP
gydey
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Re: Should The Track Nationals Be Split?

Postby littl_ man on Sun 7/Feb/10 2:36pm

Fergie wrote:One upside is that good fellas like Michael Vink, Alan Williams and Chad Adair (and others) are able to loan their equipment to the Juniors for their Nationals. We really appreciate that!
Agreed,its great that us juniors can borrow kit off older, better cyclists. But I agree with gydie on this:
gydey wrote:no womens team sprint..is that good for womens track cycling?
maybe afield of 3 competitive women in the kerin..is that good?
overlapping of key events ie mens points and IP..is that good and will it be detrimental to performance
less recovery between events... is that they key for world class performances

No, it isen't
littl_ man
Member for: 4 years 5 months

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