Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby AgrAde on Mon 24/Sep/18 6:08pm

Conners wrote:do these XT M8000's have the wandering bit point feature?


Yes.
Mainly just the M8000s.
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Velocipedestrian on Mon 24/Sep/18 6:12pm

There's a good chance to educate yourself on the subject over on Ridemonkey. They also have an interesting criticism of the Dominion, the reservoir being under the master cylinder, so it can't trap bubbles... Perhaps Dougal could comment?
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Conners on Mon 24/Sep/18 7:12pm

AgrAde wrote:
Conners wrote:do these XT M8000's have the wandering bit point feature?


Yes.
Mainly just the M8000s.

Classic - chur.

In that case - what are the fundamental differences between XTs and SLXs?
Cause man, those SLXs look like good bang for buck too...
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Conners on Mon 24/Sep/18 7:52pm

Velocipedestrian wrote:There's a good chance to educate yourself on the subject over on Ridemonkey. They also have an interesting criticism of the Dominion, the reservoir being under the master cylinder, so it can't trap bubbles... Perhaps Dougal could comment?

That's interesting - certainly not the same "Shimano brakes are the best brakes ever invented" flavour that was so common on here a few years ago.

I haven't read all 23 pages...
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Velocipedestrian on Tue 25/Sep/18 7:21am

I have. It stays interesting, not too much sidetracking.

I'm still a fanboi, most of the complaints in that thread seem to be related to proper DH use, my brakes never get beaten that hard.
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Dougal on Tue 25/Sep/18 5:24pm

Velocipedestrian wrote:There's a good chance to educate yourself on the subject over on Ridemonkey. They also have an interesting criticism of the Dominion, the reservoir being under the master cylinder, so it can't trap bubbles... Perhaps Dougal could comment?


If you have any air bubble in your brake. Then you have a problem. Mineral oils contain up to 8% air by volume and they bleed this air out air as they heat. That air is not reabsorbed as it cools. This is why mineral oil brakes need bled a lot with hard use and also why suspension forks (and machine hydraulics) create internal pressure as they work.

DOT brake fluids don't do this. Which is why all vehicles which can exceed 40 km/h use DOT fluid. Mineral oil is only used in construction machinery which uses wet brakes. Because seals need to be compatible with axle fluids.

Hayes have been doing reservoirs that way for over 20 years now on bikes. They know what they're doing.
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Dougal on Tue 25/Sep/18 5:32pm

Conners wrote:And also in advance of:
Dougal wrote:Just buy some Hayes Dominion's, they're the best brakes ever made by mankind


Do you want to try a set? :sneaky: I've been riding the prototypes for some time and did over 30,000 vertical metres over summer.

Conners wrote:
Velocipedestrian wrote:There's a good chance to educate yourself on the subject over on Ridemonkey. They also have an interesting criticism of the Dominion, the reservoir being under the master cylinder, so it can't trap bubbles... Perhaps Dougal could comment?

That's interesting - certainly not the same "Shimano brakes are the best brakes ever invented" flavour that was so common on here a few years ago.

I haven't read all 23 pages...


I found it on page 21: https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/ ... 64/page-21

Had the same questions on MTBR. It's a valid question to ask: http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/hayes ... 82798.html
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby pushbikerider on Tue 25/Sep/18 6:36pm

Conners wrote:
Velocipedestrian wrote:There's a good chance to educate yourself on the subject over on Ridemonkey. They also have an interesting criticism of the Dominion, the reservoir being under the master cylinder, so it can't trap bubbles... Perhaps Dougal could comment?

That's interesting - certainly not the same "Shimano brakes are the best brakes ever invented" flavour that was so common on here a few years ago.

I haven't read all 23 pages...


I'm still enjoying Shimano Brake life, but have had good luck with the 4 pot caliper and xt/xtr/slx lever, as a combo brake, rather than the full M800 / m7000 brake which on a trail bike application feels a bit under gunned. Although I have a set of m8000 brakes on my adventure / bikepacking bike

I also reckon that going big rotors and being careful about pad selection helps also
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Velocipedestrian on Tue 25/Sep/18 7:42pm

Dougal wrote:
Conners wrote:
Velocipedestrian wrote:There's a good chance to educate yourself on the subject over on Ridemonkey. They also have an interesting criticism of the Dominion, the reservoir being under the master cylinder, so it can't trap bubbles... Perhaps Dougal could comment?

That's interesting - certainly not the same "Shimano brakes are the best brakes ever invented" flavour that was so common on here a few years ago.

I haven't read all 23 pages...


I found it on page 21: https://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/ ... 64/page-21

Had the same questions on MTBR. It's a valid question to ask: http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/hayes ... 82798.html


Like your man on Ridemonkey says on page 22
Udi wrote: I find any brake will end up with some air in it at some point (since perfect bleeds are almost impossible and fluid has varying amounts of dissolved air - some of which can separate and rise with time and use). When that happens I think it's important that the air can easily escape the active hydraulic system

Who's ever seen a perfect bleed?
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Dougal on Tue 25/Sep/18 8:11pm

Velocipedestrian wrote:Like your man on Ridemonkey says on page 22
Udi wrote: I find any brake will end up with some air in it at some point (since perfect bleeds are almost impossible and fluid has varying amounts of dissolved air - some of which can separate and rise with time and use). When that happens I think it's important that the air can easily escape the active hydraulic system

Who's ever seen a perfect bleed?


When was the last time you had to bleed your car brakes? Do they ever suffer air intrusion or air coming out of the DOT fluid?
Nope.

My HFX Mag's (2006) haven't had the rear brake bled ever. Same flippable reservoir shape. That's ~12 years and hard enough use to turn the rotor edges a blue/purple colour (about 300°C). So plenty of opportunity to bring any air out of the fluid. But it hasn't happened.

Bleeding is easy with syringes in each end. A bleed doesn't have to be perfect. It just needs to be good and that's easy.

It's great that people ask the questions. But they need to be tempered with reality. This reservoir design is over 20 years old and doesn't have the problem he's concerned about. The port is also not the highest point.
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Velocipedestrian on Wed 26/Sep/18 1:15pm

Conners wrote:
In that case - what are the fundamental differences between XTs and SLXs?
Cause man, those SLXs look like good bang for buck too...

Don't know if they've changed the differences much, but in the 675 / 785 versions it seemed to be coming stock with a split pin vs a retainer bolt for the pads.
The SLX caliper was still threaded for the bolt, so ~$4 for the upgrade.
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Conners on Wed 26/Sep/18 4:04pm

Velocipedestrian wrote:
Conners wrote:
In that case - what are the fundamental differences between XTs and SLXs?
Cause man, those SLXs look like good bang for buck too...

Don't know if they've changed the differences much, but in the 675 / 785 versions it seemed to be coming stock with a split pin vs a retainer bolt for the pads.
The SLX caliper was still threaded for the bolt, so ~$4 for the upgrade.

Interesting - the current model seems to have some sort of pin+clip setup?
B47686F1-CC08-41ED-BB77-05E89BDA9ABA.jpeg
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Velocipedestrian on Wed 26/Sep/18 4:16pm

That's the retaining bolt, so what's the upsell now?
Just the bling factor?
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Conners on Wed 26/Sep/18 4:16pm

Dougal wrote:Do you want to try a set? :sneaky:

I have a policy of not trying anything I can’t afford...
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Re: Bike Mechanics Impart Their Wisdom On Vorb

Postby Conners on Wed 26/Sep/18 4:17pm

Velocipedestrian wrote:That's the retaining bolt, so what's the upsell now?
Just the bling factor?

Pads, CRC says SLX ships with resin pads...
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