Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby ratrod on Tue 3/Feb/09 6:55pm

America seem to like big vehicles that can be used as military vehicles. There is now a European ford that can.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1fb_1228841071
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby ryda on Thu 5/Feb/09 8:56am

on the News this morning Big Wellington Holden dealer Williams and Adams have gone under
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby Oli on Thu 5/Feb/09 8:59am

:0

There go the jobs of three of my friends! :(
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby ryda on Thu 5/Feb/09 9:10am

along with 117 others apparently :(
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby ThingOne on Thu 5/Feb/09 9:25am

It surprises me how on the edge these companies live, 1 year of bad sales and gone.
You would have thought a company the size of that would have had built up some reserves from the good times.
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby Spokes on Thu 5/Feb/09 9:31am

ThingOne wrote:It surprises me how on the edge these companies live, 1 year of bad sales and gone.
You would have thought a company the size of that would have had built up some reserves from the good times.


Oh come on. 1 year of bad sales? Guess that depends on how bad the sales have been but not many business will be able to hold on that much longer with the way things are. Bigger size just means more risk.
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby nostromo on Thu 5/Feb/09 10:25am

ryda wrote:on the News this morning Big Wellington Holden dealer Williams and Adams have gone under

Seriously? Holy cow, they have been around for eva. I walk past the HSV showroom pretty regularly, all these cool cars I perve at through the windows but have never seen anyone in there talking to sales people..

I remember I bought some parts off them years ago in the days of checks and wrote a check that bounced, I got a call from one of the Williams, he was incredibly polite and almost apologetic about it, I went down and paid him actual money, seemed like a real good sort.

Shame :(
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby Spokes on Thu 5/Feb/09 10:33am

Somebody may buy it yet and some of the workers may keep there jobs.

But as its gone to liquidation it does not look good.
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby Fraser on Thu 5/Feb/09 10:47am

ThingOne wrote:It surprises me how on the edge these companies live, 1 year of bad sales and gone.
You would have thought a company the size of that would have had built up some reserves from the good times.

Well it is the same for all of the car dealers really. The good times were 23 years ago ... 1986
They are a franchise dealer, so if the manufacturer says, we are sending you x thousand cars including the Holden Viagra that no one wants then you have to buy them anyway. Problem they have is that the next shipment will add to this issue. If they run out of space at the dealership, which 90% of car dealers do. Then they have to rent storage for this excess.
Problem is this wasn't just a bad month, or bad year. Its been squeezing most manufacturers for years.
Odd as it may seem to outsiders, most car dealers don't make any profit from car sales. The servicing and finance of the cars is what pays the bills.
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby Spokes on Thu 5/Feb/09 11:28am

When I bought my Commodore I started out looking at new ones. And the salesman seemed keen on selling me a "almost new" used one. He got me to compaire between the almost new and an older one. He was a little shocked when I said I would take the older one (bigger inside and 20k cheaper).

But thats possiably why he was keen to sell me a SH one.
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby mudguard on Thu 5/Feb/09 11:42am

And remember none of the car yards "own" the cars. The finance companies do. Every day a big car sits on the lot it cost them $50.

Even Holden Franchises. And some Finance Companies will be calling in a few loans. I know GE are trying to drop their book to under 100m. So any underperforming dealers will have their stock repo'd.
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby bugle on Thu 5/Feb/09 1:33pm

Exactly, car dealers sell finance cars a just the vehicle...

To Colin's question I believe GM and Toyota still have a stake in Subaru, but Subaru is only a wee branch of Fuji Heavy industries in the long run they will still be around. Pulling out of WRC is just an expense rationalization same as Honda ditching F1 etc

Most will be back when favorable conditions return (much like the Magrathean planet builders in Hitchhikers Guide)
Who owns Who.jpg
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby mudguard on Thu 5/Feb/09 2:07pm

One thing that astounds me about the Big Three is/was how strong the unions are, and because of this, how much it costs the companies to make cars.

They have something where if an employee is made redundant they get paid nearly all their wage until they find work!

I'll look into it a bit more.

from Wiki
Jobs Bank Program

One of the benefits negotiated by the the United Auto Workers is the job banks program, by which laid off members receive 95% of their salary and benefits. According to an October 17, 2005 article in The Detroit News, 12,000 UAW members were paid through the job banks program that year.[13]

In December 2008, the UAW agreed to suspend the program as a concession to help US automakers during the auto industry crisis.[14]

[edit] Criticism

Many people blame the UAW for the automotive industry crisis of 2008-2009. They point to its high benefits compared to its contemporaries working in Toyota as the reason for the uncompetitiveness of the Big Three. In a Nov. 18, 2008, New York Times editorial, Andrew Ross Sorkin claimed that, counting benefits, each UAW worker receives $74/hour while Toyota workers receive about $44/hour[15]. However most of this cost disparity comes from legacy pension benefits to retired members, of which the Japanese automakers have none.

The Union has also come under fire for setting up controversial programs such as the job bank program above and refusing to cut its salary to match the salaries of workers in competitors such as Toyota [16][17]. The UAW, however, has taken steps to correct this situation, such as pledging to match foreign competitors' salary by 2011 and using a union-run fund to take some of the health liability off the automakers. Whether these measures will be effective remains to be seen.
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby Colin on Thu 5/Feb/09 3:45pm

The automobile industry has been waiting with some trepidation for the latest US car sales figures to see whether the trends in recent months are continuing, or whether there is some hope of a recovery. The news was not good. In January it is estimated that sales of cars and light trucks in the US market were down 37% compared to a year ago. Chrysler sales fell 55%, General Motors dropped 49% and Ford 40%. The drops were worse than expected. The car companies blamed the fall on a drop in fleet operators buying new cars and the inability of consumers to obtain car loans in the current financial climate.

The number of cars sold was the lowest in a month since December 1981.

The drops in sales mean that the big US companies will have to close more factories, or slow down production by other means.

Things have been little better for the foreign car companies in the US market with Mercedes-Benz having lost 43% of its US sales, despite the fact that sales of Smart cars nearly tripled, as consumers went for more cost-effective machinery. Porsche down 36%. Toyota, Nissan and Honda were all down, with the drops being 34%, 30% and 28% respectively. Audi dropped 26% while BMW had a better month with a drop of only 15.5%.
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Re: How Much Longer For General Motors + Ford?

Postby Colin on Thu 5/Feb/09 4:05pm

mudguard wrote:One thing that astounds me about the Big Three is/was how strong the unions are, and because of this, how much it costs the companies to make cars.

They have something where if an employee is made redundant they get paid nearly all their wage until they find work!


Looks like the job banks are on the way out

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/01/25/chry ... us-monday/
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