Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby Dougal on Wed 30/May/18 9:04pm

Conners wrote:I would’ve photoshopped the seat rather than the brakes :lol:

You will struggle without 680% range. But then realise that it’s just fine ;)

Looks mean though :thumbsup:


The Selle San Marco does look weird, but that's the best seat I've had.

The 1x will be gone as soon as I have the time. No top end and that decagon 10T is awful for wear, vibration and efficiency. :sneaky: Gotta swap the rear wheel, fit the Blackspire Stinger and make a cable stop. The frame has a direct mount front derailleur mount. But direct only handles 40T. Not 3x10 with 44T! :thumbsup:
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby Conners on Thu 31/May/18 5:11pm

I bet you spin out that 44x11 all the time :D
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby AgrAde on Thu 31/May/18 8:48pm

Who the heck needs 44/11? Do you descend gravel roads?

It's not far off the 53/13 on my road bike which I'll pedal up to ~70kmph.
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby Dougal on Thu 31/May/18 9:24pm

Conners wrote:I bet you spin out that 44x11 all the time :D


You know me. If there's another 10% available, I'll have it.

AgrAde wrote:Who the heck needs 44/11? Do you descend gravel roads?


Many rides start and finish at gravel roads. Yes.
Cardrona, I'm in the 44T about half the time. Speeds there top out in the low 60's. Most trails are 25-35km/h between corners.
Old Man Range. 1500m vertical descent, 27km total ride. All in the 44T except for across the top or battling winds.

Also consider the distinction between having 44-11 and needing 44-11.
What 44T delivers all the time is being able to run in the middle of the rear cassette instead of in the 11/10T. Less drag, less wear, smoother, quieter, better chainline. Better efficiency.

Over about 25 km/h and I'm in the big ring.

The chordal action on a 10T sprocket is ridiculous. There's a constant 5% pulse going on and every chain link turns 36 degrees in and out under load.
Compare to 44-15 which has 2.2% pulse and 1/3 less rotation of each link. Also a chainline that's pretty much straight. Doesn't derail if you roll the bike backwards etc.

What's the big downside again? I know how to adjust a front derailleur. :sly:
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby AgrAde on Thu 31/May/18 10:02pm

For me, mainly just dependability. A modern enderpo bike pretty much puts a 44t chainring into the ground at bottom out and I do like keeping a bashguard or taco between my chainring/chain and rocks. And despite front derailleurs working fairly well, they don't work as well as chainguides at keeping the chain where it's supposed to be. I do value anti-squat, a lot of bikes do get pretty mushy with a big ring... and pretty bouncy with a small granny. Mostly I just surprised myself how little I noticed the chordal action of small rear sprockets, and how little I cared about cadence changes on a mountain bike despite hating compact on a road bike.

So I'm definitely in the camp of having as little range as I can get away with. I don't need anything lower than walking pace because at that point I'm happy walking anyway, and don't need anything higher than what I can pedal out on a flat road. That pretty much means I'm very happy with a 10-42 spread.

44/15 isn't far off 38/13 ratio and I reckon if you didn't look down at your drivetrain you'd never notice the difference.
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby Dougal on Fri 1/Jun/18 7:51pm

AgrAde wrote:For me, mainly just dependability. A modern enderpo bike pretty much puts a 44t chainring into the ground at bottom out and I do like keeping a bashguard or taco between my chainring/chain and rocks. And despite front derailleurs working fairly well, they don't work as well as chainguides at keeping the chain where it's supposed to be. I do value anti-squat, a lot of bikes do get pretty mushy with a big ring... and pretty bouncy with a small granny. Mostly I just surprised myself how little I noticed the chordal action of small rear sprockets, and how little I cared about cadence changes on a mountain bike despite hating compact on a road bike.

So I'm definitely in the camp of having as little range as I can get away with. I don't need anything lower than walking pace because at that point I'm happy walking anyway, and don't need anything higher than what I can pedal out on a flat road. That pretty much means I'm very happy with a 10-42 spread.

44/15 isn't far off 38/13 ratio and I reckon if you didn't look down at your drivetrain you'd never notice the difference.


Interestingly I've never broken or bent a 44T chainring. Certainly makes contact a few times on roll-overs but never anything worse than grind marks. The great thing about a triple is if the chain falls off the middle it's caught and changes back up all by itself. I can't recall losing a chain off the outside in recent years.
More up front and smaller at the back keeps my rear derailleur tucked up better. That's always been a bigger risk for my riding (rocks). I've never broken one off but I've hit many.

The antisquat is where the triple is great. When it gets steep and you need more you've got more. When you're in the big ring your acceleration is minor and it doesn't matter.

38T just couldn't work for me as a single. 30-42T is current and the low end is okay for ratio (don't like the chainline or drag) but the top-end is just missing and I don't like the gaps either. 28/38 2x could. But why not go 3x at that point?

I also quite like keeping the weight centred in a bike. Adding bigger and bigger cassettes to a rear wheel makes no sense to me.

1x has been a major marketing triumph. SRAM is selling drivetrains which cost more, have massively fewer parts, much faster wear and replacement parts cost several times more. It's also faster assembly for bike makers.

An Eagle XX1 cassette is $700. That's a wear part which is toast when the 10T starts skipping. Sure the 100g heavier version is only $320. A 10sp 11-36 is a bit over $100.
We'll see what Shimano 12x comes through at!
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby AgrAde on Fri 1/Jun/18 9:13pm

I've destroyed a few chains and chainrings unfortunately so I'm definitely jaded there.

I more meant 38 as a part of a double, still get a bashguard or taco to cover that size. Despite me having a stiffy for 1x, I absolutely see value in 2x and there are tonnes of people that should be using it but aren't because their bike didn't come with it or it isn't compatible, or they just are sold on the marketing. But I really struggle to see the merits for 3x.

Agreed re: SRAM's marketing. They've got a product they can charge ridiculous amounts for, everyone blindly wants, and every single current drivetrain product they have is a badly made piece of shit. Eagle is awful in reliability and usability. All of their cheap drivetrains are horrendous. Original x01/xx1 is actually pretty alright. Their good cassettes do last pretty well, I've seen a few people that have gone through multiple chainrings and 42t rear sprockets on the 11sp stuff and the one-piece steel bit is still going strong. Not that they made that 42t sprocket to be replaced :rolleyes:

I'm really looking forward to seeing what shimano comes out with for the 12sp XT. If they figure out how to pull a bit of weight out of their cassettes while keeping prices on par with the 11sp then I'd say they're on to a winner. Give me a 10-45 XT with a sub 400g cassette and I'm happy. Give me a 10-42 and I'm even happier. Give me a new saint version that I can throw a third party cage on to use on that 10-42 cassette and I'm buying that shit on day 1.
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby wachtourak on Fri 1/Jun/18 10:48pm

If you think you need 44:11 you need to spin faster

I've spun 50:15 up to like 70km/h on a velodrome and that's probably a lower gear than 44:11

Just pedal faster you pansy
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby wachtourak on Fri 1/Jun/18 10:50pm

Also my eagle drivetrain has been fine


eat a dick
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby AgrAde on Fri 1/Jun/18 10:53pm

Just don't hit the derailleur on anything or expect a fast shift in the lower gears and it's fine. Or care about double upshift.
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby mudguard on Sat 2/Jun/18 3:14pm

AgrAde wrote:Give me a 10-42 and I'm even happier. Give me a new saint version that I can throw a third party cage on to use on that 10-42 cassette and I'm buying that shit on day 1.


That's my setup almost.
11-42t with Saint and One Up Cage (10sp). 34t on the front and it's perfect, I think I could almost go to a 36t now. But my climbs are short, all less than 20 minutes. But even the hour or so it takes me to climb up to Hot X Buns in Rotorua is fine.
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby Dougal on Sun 3/Jun/18 5:53pm

wachtourak wrote:If you think you need 44:11 you need to spin faster

I've spun 50:15 up to like 70km/h on a velodrome and that's probably a lower gear than 44:11

Just pedal faster you pansy


70km/h (19.4m/s) with a 700c is about 556rpm of the back wheel. With 50:15 that's only 166rpm.
Can you not break 200? :sneaky:

Applying your same (max rpm only) logic to a flattish mtb ride you would hit 30km/h with a 27x2.3" and 11T rear 15T front.

Just pedal faster you pansy. :baaa:

Likewise. Many cars can do 100km/h in 2nd gear. Why do you even need the rest?
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby Dougal on Sun 3/Jun/18 5:57pm

mudguard wrote:
AgrAde wrote:Give me a 10-42 and I'm even happier. Give me a new saint version that I can throw a third party cage on to use on that 10-42 cassette and I'm buying that shit on day 1.


That's my setup almost.
11-42t with Saint and One Up Cage (10sp). 34t on the front and it's perfect, I think I could almost go to a 36t now. But my climbs are short, all less than 20 minutes. But even the hour or so it takes me to climb up to Hot X Buns in Rotorua is fine.


Which 1x gearing were you running when you ran out of gears going up the lookout here?
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby Conners on Sun 3/Jun/18 11:41pm

Dougal wrote:
mudguard wrote:
AgrAde wrote:Give me a 10-42 and I'm even happier. Give me a new saint version that I can throw a third party cage on to use on that 10-42 cassette and I'm buying that shit on day 1.


That's my setup almost.
11-42t with Saint and One Up Cage (10sp). 34t on the front and it's perfect, I think I could almost go to a 36t now. But my climbs are short, all less than 20 minutes. But even the hour or so it takes me to climb up to Hot X Buns in Rotorua is fine.


Which 1x gearing were you running when you ran out of gears going up the lookout here?

More importantly, of all of the riding you do - what percentage was that one ride where you ran out of gears?

For me, I’ve only run out once since I went 1x. That was Whites Bay, and I’m pretty certain I would’ve been pushing some of that even with a 24 tooth up front.

I probably couldn’t clean every climb round Karapoti on 1x any more either. But for me the advantages outweigh the disadvantages on 99% of the riding I do - so that works for me.

If you really want range, good chainline and less wear, then surely a gearbox is the way forward? ;)
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Re: Post Your Ride 2018

Postby Velocipedestrian on Mon 4/Jun/18 9:57am

Conners wrote:If you really want range, good chainline and less wear, then surely a gearbox is the way forward? ;)

Nicolai do a Horst one...
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