Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby wpp1 on Sat 29/Mar/14 7:52am

They still can't pass a cyclist on a double yellow if they have to cross the yellow line to do so. It quite clearly says you must never cross the yellow.
wpp1
Member for: 8 years 10 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby briiii on Sat 29/Mar/14 9:20am

Agreed.

Its amazing how many people seem to think that oncoming traffic has to avoid them as they cross into the oncoming lane to pass a cyclist.
briiii
User avatar
"I'm a bikesexual"
Member for: 9 years 3 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby LaPommeDeTere on Sat 29/Mar/14 12:59pm

based on some of the ways I've seen some chose to ride lately, I wish the Police would do more random spot checks on bunch/group rides.

I'm sick of being the one to point out to some idiots that the right side of the center line is the wrong place to ride their bike.
LaPommeDeTere
Member for: 4 years 5 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby EoinC on Sat 29/Mar/14 1:13pm

Klarkash-ton wrote:...a cyclist is neither a motor vehicle or animal-drawn vehicle, so...

Evolutionists would hold that a bike trailer qualifies as an animal-drawn vehicle. Creationists and evolutionists would agree that a recumbent trailer is an animal-drawn vehicle.
EoinC
Member for: 7 years 2 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby Klarkash-ton on Sat 29/Mar/14 1:43pm

wpp1 wrote:They still can't pass a cyclist on a double yellow if they have to cross the yellow line to do so. It quite clearly says you must never cross the yellow.


I did my bit of searching. Please show me where in the legislation it backs up your statement. Please bear in mind I'm a cyclist and I would prefer your version.
Klarkash-ton
"I ride to support my eating habit"
Member for: 9 years 2 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby Klarkash-ton on Sat 29/Mar/14 1:52pm

EoinC wrote:
Klarkash-ton wrote:...a cyclist is neither a motor vehicle or animal-drawn vehicle, so...

Evolutionists would hold that a bike trailer qualifies as an animal-drawn vehicle. Creationists and evolutionists would agree that a recumbent trailer is an animal-drawn vehicle.


You may have found a loophole but from memory section 1.6 classes bicycles as "muscle propelled", including motor assisted cycles, so distinct from animal-drawn.

Cyclists are included in the definition of drivers.
Klarkash-ton
"I ride to support my eating habit"
Member for: 9 years 2 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby wpp1 on Sat 29/Mar/14 2:13pm

Klarkash-ton wrote:
wpp1 wrote:They still can't pass a cyclist on a double yellow if they have to cross the yellow line to do so. It quite clearly says you must never cross the yellow.


I did my bit of searching. Please show me where in the legislation it backs up your statement. Please bear in mind I'm a cyclist and I would prefer your version.


You can read the whole thing here

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadc ... ssing.html

Below are the relevant passages.

No-passing line

You must not pass another vehicle if it means you have to cross over a no-passing line on your side of the centre line.

You can pass at a no-passing line if:
•you stay on your side of the solid yellow line, and
•you can see 100 metres of clear road in front of you for the whole time while you are passing, and
•the lane is wide enough for two vehicles.
wpp1
Member for: 8 years 10 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby briiii on Sat 29/Mar/14 2:20pm

One thing I never could fathom about the road code was this "You must ride with lights on when it is dark (from 30 minutes after sunset on one day until 30 minutes before sunrise on the next day)"

Surely it's going to be fairly dark in the 30 minutes following the sun going down and the 30 minutes prior to the sun being up... WTF?

I couldn't find the bit about the yellow no passing lines but I mean they're called a no passing line... not a no passing unless it is <a specific thing> you're passing line.
briiii
User avatar
"I'm a bikesexual"
Member for: 9 years 3 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby philstar on Sat 29/Mar/14 2:26pm

Klarkash-ton wrote:I think ST is referring to this:

Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004

2.9 Passing where roadway marked with no-passing line
(1)This clause applies if a driver is at or approaching a portion of a roadway where the road controlling authority has, in accordance with any enactment, marked a no-passing line applying to traffic moving in the direction in which the driver is moving.
(2)The driver must not pass or attempt to pass a motor vehicle or an animal-drawn vehicle moving in the same direction within the length of roadway on which the no-passing line is marked until the driver reaches the further end of the no-passing line, unless throughout the passing movement the driver keeps the vehicle wholly to the left of the no-passing line.


a cyclist is neither a motor vehicle or animal-drawn vehicle, so...


I was under the impression that it was illegal to cross the yellow line even if you are not passing (unless turning right).
nowhere in the above passage does it say that it is ok to cross the yellow line if there is a cyclist there, so you could interpret said passage as be it is not ok to pass a cyclist on a no passing line even if you do not cross the yellow line.
philstar
User avatar
"misanthropic"
Member for: 11 years 7 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby philstar on Sat 29/Mar/14 2:48pm

briiii wrote:One thing I never could fathom about the road code was this "You must ride with lights on when it is dark (from 30 minutes after sunset on one day until 30 minutes before sunrise on the next day)"

Surely it's going to be fairly dark in the 30 minutes following the sun going down and the 30 minutes prior to the sun being up... WTF?


its the same rule for car headlights.
sunset is defined by the sun being pasts the horizon, it is usually just light enough for 30 min after that,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight
6 degrees past sunset

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lux
3.4 lux Dark limit of civil twilight under a clear sky
400 lux Sunrise or sunset on a clear day.
20,000 lux Shade illuminated by entire clear blue sky, midday
philstar
User avatar
"misanthropic"
Member for: 11 years 7 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby Simonius_Titius on Sat 29/Mar/14 2:58pm

wpp1 wrote:
Klarkash-ton wrote:
wpp1 wrote:They still can't pass a cyclist on a double yellow if they have to cross the yellow line to do so. It quite clearly says you must never cross the yellow.


I did my bit of searching. Please show me where in the legislation it backs up your statement. Please bear in mind I'm a cyclist and I would prefer your version.


You can read the whole thing here

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadc ... ssing.html

Below are the relevant passages.

No-passing line

You must not pass another vehicle if it means you have to cross over a no-passing line on your side of the centre line.

You can pass at a no-passing line if:
•you stay on your side of the solid yellow line, and
•you can see 100 metres of clear road in front of you for the whole time while you are passing, and
•the lane is wide enough for two vehicles.


Yes that is quite clear but remember the Road Code is not the law, it is a simplified guide to driving safely and within the law. Almost inevitably it does contain some minor inconsistencies.

The statute quoted above is what counts, and it is completely clear that crossing the yellow is not forbidden under all circumstances but only in the limited examples given which do not include:

Bicycles, riders on horseback;
craters made by explosive devices whether dropped or fired by aircraft, projected from a ground or ship based delivery systems or placed by hand or from a vehicle;
UFOs or UFO debris,
double mattresses and other impedimentia fallen from moving vehicles or placed by naughty or just playful persons;
fallen trees, sinkholes, slips, rockfall, amateur or official roadworks, marching bands, mobs of sheep or protestors.
Or any other reason you can defend for crossing the yellow given the general requirement to keep "as far left as practical".

Note the legislation does not mention a double yellow line. As I understand it the law applies only to the line on your side of the centreline.
The Road Code does mention the double yellow because the Code is a general driving guide and the existence of a yellow line applying to oncoming traffic has practical road safety implications regardless of whether it affects your legal position.
Simonius_Titius
User avatar
"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off. - Gloria Steinem"
Member for: 8 years 0 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby philstar on Sat 29/Mar/14 3:29pm

Simonius_Titius wrote:
The statute quoted above is what counts, and it is completely clear that crossing the yellow is not forbidden under all circumstances but only in the limited examples given which do not include:


I repeat that the statute says that is is legal to pass under conditions mentioned, it does not state that it it is ok to cross the yellow line under all or any other conditions.
philstar
User avatar
"misanthropic"
Member for: 11 years 7 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby wpp1 on Sat 29/Mar/14 3:35pm

Simonius_Titius wrote:
wpp1 wrote:
Klarkash-ton wrote:
wpp1 wrote:They still can't pass a cyclist on a double yellow if they have to cross the yellow line to do so. It quite clearly says you must never cross the yellow.


I did my bit of searching. Please show me where in the legislation it backs up your statement. Please bear in mind I'm a cyclist and I would prefer your version.


You can read the whole thing here

http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadc ... ssing.html

Below are the relevant passages.

No-passing line

You must not pass another vehicle if it means you have to cross over a no-passing line on your side of the centre line.

You can pass at a no-passing line if:
•you stay on your side of the solid yellow line, and
•you can see 100 metres of clear road in front of you for the whole time while you are passing, and
•the lane is wide enough for two vehicles.


Yes that is quite clear but remember the Road Code is not the law, it is a simplified guide to driving safely and within the law. Almost inevitably it does contain some minor inconsistencies.

The statute quoted above is what counts, and it is completely clear that crossing the yellow is not forbidden under all circumstances but only in the limited examples given which do not include:

Bicycles, riders on horseback;
craters made by explosive devices whether dropped or fired by aircraft, projected from a ground or ship based delivery systems or placed by hand or from a vehicle;
UFOs or UFO debris,
double mattresses and other impedimentia fallen from moving vehicles or placed by naughty or just playful persons;
fallen trees, sinkholes, slips, rockfall, amateur or official roadworks, marching bands, mobs of sheep or protestors.
Or any other reason you can defend for crossing the yellow given the general requirement to keep "as far left as practical".

Note the legislation does not mention a double yellow line. As I understand it the law applies only to the line on your side of the centreline.
The Road Code does mention the double yellow because the Code is a general driving guide and the existence of a yellow line applying to oncoming traffic has practical road safety implications regardless of whether it affects your legal position.



Yes but passing a cyclist, horse or any of the things mentioned above on a yellow line is likely to be in breach of one of these and I would think a cycle is a vehicle. Also too much lawyer thinking going on. Common sense tells you that if you cross a yellow line, for what ever reason, then you will be in the wrong if something goes wrong.

2.6 General requirements about passing other vehicles

(1) A driver must not pass or attempt to pass another vehicle moving in the same direction unless—

(a) the movement can be made with safety; and
(b) the movement is made with due consideration for other users of the road; and
(c) sufficient clear road is visible to the driver for the passing movement to be completed without impeding or being likely to impede any possible opposing traffic; and
(d) until the passing movement is completed, the driver has a clear view of the road and any traffic on the road for at least 100 m in the direction in which the driver is travelling.

(2) Subclause (1)(c) and (d) does not apply if the passing vehicle and the vehicle being passed are in different lanes and are, throughout the passing movement, either on a one-way road or on the same side of the centre line.
(3) A driver must not, when passing another vehicle moving in the same direction, move into the line of passage of that vehicle until the manoeuvre can be made safely and without impeding the movement of that other vehicle.
wpp1
Member for: 8 years 10 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby Klarkash-ton on Sat 29/Mar/14 3:57pm

Philstar, you can't expect the legislation to cover all the things it doesn't mean. You can expect it to cover EXACTLY what it means, and if specifies motor vehicles and animal-drawn. It does not say 'other users of the road' as it does on several occasions, including the bit from 2.6 (1) (b). Possibly, Kyle, this would indicate to a judge that the RAW = RAI for section 2.9.

Or....

I did another search of the legislation on "no-passing line" and the only other section it appears in is:

2.3 Use of lanes

(1) A driver, when driving, must not use—
<editorial snip>
(d) a lane to the driver's right of a no-passing line; or
Klarkash-ton
"I ride to support my eating habit"
Member for: 9 years 2 months

Re: Police Stopping Cyclists At The Bottom Of Ngaio Gorge?

Postby Klarkash-ton on Sat 29/Mar/14 3:59pm

oops, pressed submit instead of preview.

so does 2.3 prohibit crossing the no-passing line or is "use of lane' more than just crossing the line?
Klarkash-ton
"I ride to support my eating habit"
Member for: 9 years 2 months

Cycle Commuting | Cycling | Lower North Island | New Zealand | Regions | Wellington | Wellington Region - Latest Posts

Who is online

44 Users browsing this website: DotBot, Google [Bot] and 42 guests

REMEBER TO CLICK THE LINKS WHEN BUYING FROM VORB SUPPORTERS


  • ProBikeKit
  • Torpedo7
  • Vorb Shop
  • Wiggle
  • Chain Reaction Cycles
  • GT Bicycles
  • Merlin Cycles