Pete Bethune

douchebag
64
76%
hero
20
24%
 
Total voters : 84

Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby cruiser on Wed 2/Jun/10 11:34am

Common-sense, science and history tells us these whales are toast, therefore the ecosystem of the sea is toast.

We're so busy consuming, we've become Earths' cancer.
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby thorg on Wed 2/Jun/10 11:51am

Kevin Hague wrote:
phunk wrote:
Kevin Hague wrote: Hard to argue with the outcome.


That him and his douchebag mates have turned the tide of public opinion in favour of the whalers, bit of an own goal really.


That's not the impression I have - but maybe you know of some opinion survey results? Actually I do think there are risks of alienating some members of the public if Sea Shepherd uses tactics that the public would not support, but the fact is that there are literally hundreds of whales that disn't get killed as a result of the Sea Shepherd action.

This highly scientific vorb poll seems pretty conclusive.
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby cruiser on Wed 2/Jun/10 11:55am

what the Japanese need is a volcano or an oil spill to take up media timeslots, then it'll all blissfully go back to status quo.
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby AMC on Wed 2/Jun/10 12:49pm

What Sea shepard need is a trireme. If you are going to play boat conkers you need the right equipment.
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby fatwombat on Wed 2/Jun/10 12:51pm

E Dogg Capizzle wrote:You're a bit thick aren't you? Why make the assumption that the continuation of a cultural practice necessitates replicating that practice under its historical circumstances? For example, conversing with other people is a cultural practice that extends back into prehistory, but the fact that we now have conversations via the internet does not mean that these conversations are not a continuation of the cultural form. :eh:

I think you've picked an unfortunate example if you really want to defend your stated position. The move from personal interaction to electronic communication is something frequently highlighted by sociologists and other analysts of cultural change as an illustration of the LOSS of cultural practices. Face to face communication and written communication imposed a need for a certain level of ritual courtesy and there were always time delays between wanting to communicate a message, sending the message and the recipient receiving the communication. This meant there was more time for people to cool down to avoid abusive, offensive or unclear messages, more time to plan out what to say and how to say it.

In contrast, electronic communication is so fast that it allows, almost obliges, people to express themselves before they have time to plan out their message or consider the consequences. As well as electronic communications being more impulsive and less considered than oral and written communication, communications experts concur that over half of the content of a message is in the non-verbal factors - gestures, facial expressions, tone of voice - so even the most carefully thought out electronic message is less than half as clear as the same message delivered face to face. Emoticons are a very inadequate substitute.

Apart from the issues around the accuracy of communications, it is generally accepted that people need positive personal contact to be mentally and emotionally healthy. The increasing reliance on electronic media for communication has created a need for new social processes in order to compensate for what has been lost. Therefore it can be seen that in many ways the move to electronic communications has destroyed old cultural practices and created new ones.

The same is true of intense industrialisation of traditional production. Wherever cottage industries and manufactures by skilled craftsmen are replaced with mass-production techniques, social structures are undermined and changed; economic, political and social power moves to new sub-groups of a society; cultural forms related to the traditional production methods are lost.

Ergo, it can be argued with some validity that the move from traditional whaling to factory ships and powerful hunting vessels with explosive harpoons represented the demise of Japan's whaling tradition and its replacement with something else.

Last point: it shouldn't be forgotten that the Japanese moved their intensive fishing and whaling industries to the South Pacific because their intense harvesting methods had effectively exterminated these resources from the northern waters.
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby thorg on Wed 2/Jun/10 12:55pm

gets popcorn.
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby fatwombat on Wed 2/Jun/10 12:57pm

AMC wrote:What Sea shepard need is a trireme. If you are going to play boat conkers you need the right equipment.

:lol: I agree that if you're going to take violent action, you need to have the resources sufficient to do so successfully. I thought their little boat was a nice looking little machine, but throwing it in front of a whaling ship was a pathetic futile gesture that could only end badly for the protestors.

I'd love to see a naval fleet made up of a coalition of anti-whaling nations go down there to stop the Japs, but until that happens I think private activism only inflames the situation. In terms of cultural forms: the Japanese have a tradition of personal honour, they cannot afford to be seen to lose face. So when rude ignorant hippie veterans try to bully them (and that from a position of weakness), the Japanese - politicians, industrialists - feel honour-bound to take an even harder line in support of their own position.
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby DogsBollocks on Wed 2/Jun/10 1:00pm

Now you've all proved you have huuuuge brians, lets get back on topic.

Bethune's a cunzor who should rot :satan:
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby bubbaa on Wed 2/Jun/10 1:05pm

fatwombat wrote:
E Dogg Capizzle wrote:You're a bit thick aren't you? Why make the assumption that the continuation of a cultural practice necessitates replicating that practice under its historical circumstances? For example, conversing with other people is a cultural practice that extends back into prehistory, but the fact that we now have conversations via the internet does not mean that these conversations are not a continuation of the cultural form. :eh:

I think you've picked an unfortunate example if you really want to defend your stated position. The move from personal interaction to electronic communication is something frequently highlighted by sociologists and other analysts of cultural change as an illustration of the LOSS of cultural practices. Face to face communication and written communication imposed a need for a certain level of ritual courtesy and there were always time delays between wanting to communicate a message, sending the message and the recipient receiving the communication. This meant there was more time for people to cool down to avoid abusive, offensive or unclear messages, more time to plan out what to say and how to say it.

In contrast, electronic communication is so fast that it allows, almost obliges, people to express themselves before they have time to plan out their message or consider the consequences. As well as electronic communications being more impulsive and less considered than oral and written communication, communications experts concur that over half of the content of a message is in the non-verbal factors - gestures, facial expressions, tone of voice - so even the most carefully thought out electronic message is less than half as clear as the same message delivered face to face. Emoticons are a very inadequate substitute.

Apart from the issues around the accuracy of communications, it is generally accepted that people need positive personal contact to be mentally and emotionally healthy. The increasing reliance on electronic media for communication has created a need for new social processes in order to compensate for what has been lost. Therefore it can be seen that in many ways the move to electronic communications has destroyed old cultural practices and created new ones.

The same is true of intense industrialisation of traditional production. Wherever cottage industries and manufactures by skilled craftsmen are replaced with mass-production techniques, social structures are undermined and changed; economic, political and social power moves to new sub-groups of a society; cultural forms related to the traditional production methods are lost.

Ergo, it can be argued with some validity that the move from traditional whaling to factory ships and powerful hunting vessels with explosive harpoons represented the demise of Japan's whaling tradition and its replacement with something else.

Last point: it shouldn't be forgotten that the Japanese moved their intensive fishing and whaling industries to the South Pacific because their intense harvesting methods had effectively exterminated these resources from the northern waters.


wot he sed
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby Bigfoot on Wed 2/Jun/10 1:06pm

Since most of the largest whales are gone, their ecological niches have been usurped by others; namely numerous seal spp. and some penguins. It is unlikely that that a complete suspension of commercial whaling would result in anything other than some whalers and morons with too much time on their hands to be out of work. So the best course of action would be to encourage the Japs to manage their actions better, and to avoid fishing down the food web... personally I am more concerned with the gross reduction in big fish (ie. tuna) than some whales.
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby fatwombat on Wed 2/Jun/10 1:13pm

DogsBollocks wrote:Now you've all proved you have huuuuge brians,

I don't even know anyone called Brian :blink:

:D
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby sifter on Wed 2/Jun/10 1:15pm

I get how email can be more impulsive than talking, but presumably once two people are engaged in conversation, the speed "advantage" must surely revert to oral communication?
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby DogsBollocks on Wed 2/Jun/10 1:21pm

fatwombat wrote:
DogsBollocks wrote:Now you've all proved you have huuuuge brians,

I don't even know anyone called Brian :blink:

:D


Brian used to be a mate of mine, but I lost all my marbles to him. Now I have no marbles :blink: :blink:
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby bubbaa on Wed 2/Jun/10 1:26pm

sifter wrote:I get how email can be more impulsive than talking, but presumably once two people are engaged in conversation, the speed "advantage" must surely revert to oral communication?

that would be the non verbal comm disadvantage of electronic and the slow down and consider disadvantage of other previously written forms ie not all advantages and disadvantages apply to all forms :) :( :sly: :o :angry: :p :thumbsup: :paranoid: :sneaky: =} :hmmm: ;) :D :blush: :cool: :crazy: :cry: :huh: :lol: :withstupid: :baaa: :exclaim: :music: :sleeping: :butbut: :rolleyes: :love: :blink: :ib:
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Re: Pete Bethune: Hippy Douchebag Or Environmentalist Hero??

Postby cruiser on Wed 2/Jun/10 1:28pm

I think the problem FW is referring to is as the communications(technology) get more elaborate and increase, the communication (quality) decreases.

Each year we send more and relate/ understand less
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