Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby XCrazy on Mon 22/Feb/10 8:26pm

Or basically what Nick K said :withstupid:
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby shmoodiver on Mon 22/Feb/10 8:35pm

Nick_K wrote:
wuffy wrote:Think about it people, the only big issues ever in nuclear power were ages ago and caused by total incompetence and idiocy. Not to mention one was in russia. It's safe nowdays.


I didn't know you had solved the problem of safely disposing of the radioactive bi-products of nuclear power wuffy?

If you look behind the rhetoric of safe, clean, green nuclear power I believe you will find there a a number of issue not even close to being solved. Once you take into the the building, disposal of the waste and much more significantly the future decommissioning of the stations you will find they do not compare to wind, solar or hydro power in terms of environmental footprint.


the same can be said of certain hybrid cars but everybody loves them atm
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby BrokenKonaRider on Mon 22/Feb/10 8:42pm

And the massive cost to taxpayers from loaning money to these private businesses when it could be spent on other less politically wonderful things like oh, parks. And light bulbs.
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby the-right-to-evolve on Mon 22/Feb/10 8:48pm

regardless of anything that ANY government says nothing will change. we are spiraling out of control into our own destruction and there's not much we can do. i suggest you enjoy your time now.
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby wuffy on Mon 22/Feb/10 8:49pm

the-right-to-evolve wrote:regardless of anything that ANY government says nothing will change. we are spiraling out of control into our own destruction and there's not much we can do. i suggest you enjoy your time now.


What a happy person you are.
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby shmoodiver on Mon 22/Feb/10 8:52pm

he has a pretty valid point
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby the-right-to-evolve on Mon 22/Feb/10 8:54pm

wuffy wrote:
the-right-to-evolve wrote:regardless of anything that ANY government says nothing will change. we are spiraling out of control into our own destruction and there's not much we can do. i suggest you enjoy your time now.


What a happy person you are.



...sometimes. :huh:
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby michael on Mon 22/Feb/10 8:57pm

Nick_K wrote:If you look behind the rhetoric of safe, clean, green nuclear power


The whole safe green nuclear argument kind of also relies on unrealistic discount rates and a substitution of uncertainty for risk. Don't believe the hype.
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby northernmonkey on Mon 22/Feb/10 9:36pm

Nuclear waste can never be made safe. The idea that Nuclear waste cvan be stored safely disregards the fact that no civilisation in history has lasted even one half life of typical fuels. How do we make it safe for whatever civilisations follow us. Its hubris of the worst kind to assume the currrent world social order will last or that our sybology and languages will persist.

There is no Alternative to oil, the whole idea is a myth. Every single alternate energy proposed is not an alternative but a derivative of hydrocarbons. Name one alternative energy source that can use zero hydrocarbons in its extraction, production, transport, use and waste disposal cycle. (I mean doesn't use any at all, not carbon neutral which is another carnard.
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby happybaboon on Mon 22/Feb/10 11:21pm

I have hope that we'll get genuine oil alternative powersources soon enough to avoid total disaster. The big auto makers are finally starting to wake up about that... And if we could get some solar powered trucks or trains that would be another big step. Solar powered ships too. Or even some sort of wind-powered ship to move good across the oceans. If that is even remotely possible :rolleyes:

I give mankind about an 80% chance of surviving the end of oil. Necessity to develop alternatives will drive change quickly (I hope). Right now we're not moving on the whole oil thing simply because we don't HAVE TO yet. But as soon as we really need to, someone will figure out some other realistic energy sources.

Nuclear will never be one of them though. Those deep underground storage facilities for nuclear waste are stupid. Especially their plans to put all manner of dangerous, forboding looking stuff around them to keep future forms of life away... Expecting other forms of intelligent life to sufficiently understand our symbolism is really, really stupid.
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby northernmonkey on Mon 22/Feb/10 11:57pm

happybaboon wrote:I have hope that we'll get genuine oil alternative powersources soon enough to avoid total disaster. The big auto makers are finally starting to wake up about that... And if we could get some solar powered trucks or trains that would be another big step. Solar powered ships too. Or even some sort of wind-powered ship to move good across the oceans. If that is even remotely possible :rolleyes:

I give mankind about an 80% chance of surviving the end of oil. Necessity to develop alternatives will drive change quickly (I hope). Right now we're not moving on the whole oil thing simply because we don't HAVE TO yet. But as soon as we really need to, someone will figure out some other realistic energy sources.

Nuclear will never be one of them though. Those deep underground storage facilities for nuclear waste are stupid. Especially their plans to put all manner of dangerous, forboding looking stuff around them to keep future forms of life away... Expecting other forms of intelligent life to sufficiently understand our symbolism is really, really stupid.


I don't think the energy is the problem. The problem is without Oil virtually nothing can be manufctured, either what its made of or in the tooling, process etc. Our society is totally reliant on Plastics and polymers and other hdrocarbon derivatives. You cannot have industrial society without hydrocarbons.
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby j2hyde on Tue 23/Feb/10 6:30am

I think Obama is a great guy and the solution he proposes strikes a great balance between the desire to create a utopian sustainable future and the limitations of reality. If only other leaders had the balls to put aside fickle populism and commit to an unpopular but realistic solution like nuclear power.

Also this has nothing to do with hypothetical scenarios involving running out of oil. I don't see anything in Obamas announcement claiming his proposal is an oil alternative.
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby Scotty on Tue 23/Feb/10 7:15am

...but Obama punishes Iran for making the same moves for the same reasons.

Oooooh, now there's a conundrum...
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby Fraser on Tue 23/Feb/10 7:30am

On the Nuclear powered issue, I think NZ has played itself into a corner with that one. Some of the greens get themselves into the intellectually difficult position of now supporting Nuclear power due to it's low carbon emmissions.
Compare this to the seasonal ebb and flow of NZ's failure to produce reliable electricity. Sometime somewhere the customers will have to foot the bill for a substancial investment in a new alternative energy source. Oddly under the shadow of environmentalism but all the while lit by the hipocrisy of coal fired and energy importing.
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Re: Obama - A Change We Can Believe In?

Postby RussS on Tue 23/Feb/10 7:47am

:baaa:
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