Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby mitch7 on Wed 19/Aug/09 10:37pm

so i shouldn't be riding with a leaky bag of Derris Dust then?.... :eh:
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby thorg on Thu 20/Aug/09 7:31am

duzall wrote:
j2hyde wrote:Those snails aren't rare either. That is a complete bullshit myth propagated by people who have probably never even been into the area and just want an excuse to push their own twisted ideological barrow at the expense of everyone else. Those snails are everywhere up there - hundreds of thousands of them. And they have a vast area of completely undisturbed land upon which to continue thriving.

And if they're so rare and precious why did DOC spend most of today littering the area with 1080?


Forest and Bird (or at least the people who decide its policy) are OK with the use of 1080 it would seem, I had a look at their website for research purposes. I can't be bothered going back to it to quote it directly though.

It seems some people aren't happy unless they're making others unhappy. I'm aware that if I get the chance to tell them this, they'll deny it, and claim that they're doing it for the snails...
Many sub species of the snails in that area are both rare AND endangered.

1080 does not kill snails.

I have both lived and worked in the area.

Trying to defeat a pathetic arguement with another pathetic arguement makes you as bad as them. Saying that the snails arent rare just shows ignorance of facts and the NZ classification system of native animals.

HTH
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby nagem on Thu 20/Aug/09 7:32am

I'm pretty sure derris dust doesn't kill snails either.
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby swtchbckr on Thu 20/Aug/09 9:47am

just been thinking about this a little more...

and i think that bikers have more chance of missing the snails, not just for the math of it (nice job above by the way), but because we're looking at the trail ahead all the time. whereas walkers (especially on this well groomed a trail) stroll along, head in the clouds, gazing at the surrounding scenery, and only occasionally looking at the ground (spotting the snails)they're walking on.

like i said, i saw more dead snails as a result of (introduced) blackbirds!
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby onyabike on Thu 27/Aug/09 12:33pm

swtchbckr wrote:just been thinking about this a little more...

and i think that bikers have more chance of missing the snails, not just for the math of it (nice job above by the way), but because we're looking at the trail ahead all the time. whereas walkers (especially on this well groomed a trail) stroll along, head in the clouds, gazing at the surrounding scenery, and only occasionally looking at the ground (spotting the snails)they're walking on.

like i said, i saw more dead snails as a result of (introduced) blackbirds!


Probably possums (they're not strictly vego) that ate those snails or rats or pigs - they'd be a big feed for a blackbird to tackle wouldn't they?
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby swtchbckr on Sun 30/Aug/09 7:52pm

fait accomplis the snails are all gonna be fucked now anyway, with Nazional opening up all the national parks for mining, the gouland downs will be first on their list, what with its nice juicy uranium deposits for the taking... yay.
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby MattV on Sun 30/Aug/09 8:11pm

I'm pretty sure my neighbour is a member of Forest and Bird. She's fits the age catagory, wears a singlet and doesnt shave her armpits.
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby j2hyde on Sun 30/Aug/09 10:58pm

swtchbckr wrote:fait accomplis the snails are all gonna be fucked now anyway, with Nazional opening up all the national parks for mining, the gouland downs will be first on their list, what with its nice juicy uranium deposits for the taking... yay.


overdramatise much?
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby swtchbckr on Mon 31/Aug/09 10:33am

j2hyde wrote:
swtchbckr wrote:fait accomplis the snails are all gonna be fucked now anyway, with Nazional opening up all the national parks for mining, the gouland downs will be first on their list, what with its nice juicy uranium deposits for the taking... yay.


overdramatise much?


only a little...

still think its absolutely disgusting and ridiculous what is being proposed. that land was put aside for future generations and for the conservation of unique ecosystems and species, no way should it be opened up so that a few fat cat mates of Gerry and Tim and John's can line their pockets with the mineral resources that are under them. shame on tim groser, he should be DEFENDING the conservation estate from this kind of attack, not going along with it.
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby thorg on Mon 31/Aug/09 12:22pm

Considering the amount of open cast mining currently on DOC estate, a few more will not have much overall effect.

And DOC doesnt have much say in the decision either - all controlled under crown minerals act, not conservation act.

And DOC has plenty of areas of little to no ecological value (dissused mining/forestry sites from the 70's - so contaminated that nothing grows, and rivers are below recreation quality 50km down stream :blink: ) - part of a minining licience could be that they clean these areas of contaminants; we could get a win for business + win for ecology from this IF managed properly.

Like a government would ever do that :huh:
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby swtchbckr on Mon 31/Aug/09 12:53pm

yeah, but the areas of 'little or no ecological value' that you talk of are already open to the exploitation that Brownlie is talking about, cos they're in a lower category level of conservation estate. What he's suggesting getting into is the Category 4 land, which is the top level conservation land. the National Parks, the Wilderness Areas, the WORLD FUCKING HERITAGE SITES fu'ckrist'sake. These are the areas that were protected by our forebears for ALL of us.
and the only reason DOC has all these old mining sites / toxic wastelands, is cos no one else wanted them - and cos they often contain whats left of a unique ecology, rare ecosystems etc.

its pretty common for mining companies to, very conveniently for themselves, go bankrupt as soon as they're finished making a big mess. "oh whoops, we've made a bit of a mess, sorry, cant afford to clean that up now..." there is no win win with mining. there's 'win' for the fat cats, but a big fat 'lose' for the birds, trees, bugs, fish, and tourism industry, and international reputation. clean green new zealand? hey, now we're talking about opening up our top level conservation estate to the mining interests!!! thats 100% pure bullshit in my book.
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby thorg on Mon 31/Aug/09 1:02pm

swtchbckr wrote:yeah, but the areas of 'little or no ecological value' that you talk of are already open to the exploitation that Brownlie is talking about, cos they're in a lower category level of conservation estate. What he's suggesting getting into is the Category 4 land, which is the top level conservation land. the National Parks, the Wilderness Areas, the WORLD FUCKING HERITAGE SITES fu'ckrist'sake. These are the areas that were protected by our forebears for ALL of us.
and the only reason DOC has all these old mining sites / toxic wastelands, is cos no one else wanted them - and cos they often contain whats left of a unique ecology, rare ecosystems etc.

its pretty common for mining companies to, very conveniently for themselves, go bankrupt as soon as they're finished making a big mess. "oh whoops, we've made a bit of a mess, sorry, cant afford to clean that up now..." there is no win win with mining. there's 'win' for the fat cats, but a big fat 'lose' for the birds, trees, bugs, fish, and tourism industry, and international reputation. clean green new zealand? hey, now we're talking about opening up our top level conservation estate to the mining interests!!! thats 100% pure bullshit in my book.
Nope - many of those contaminated sites are within NP and heritiage areas. In fact, NP are some of the least protected of all DOC land - strangely. recreation reserves have greater protection. . . .

and nope again - the new concession agreements require the companies to put the restoration money into trust prior to starting work.

Again - this would all require the gubbermint to actually do this sensibly. All I'm suggesting is that it can all be done sensibly and provide a win win situation.
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby dented on Mon 31/Aug/09 1:10pm

MattV wrote:I'm pretty sure my neighbour is a member of Forest and Bird. She's fits the age catagory, wears a singlet and doesnt shave her armpits.

*shudder*
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby MattV on Mon 31/Aug/09 5:02pm

I'll spare you the detail, it was truly awful :(
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Re: Noooooo!!!!!

Postby j2hyde on Mon 31/Aug/09 6:24pm

Naseby is an old mine site. I say we sell the snails to france, mine anything that will make a buck and turn the leftovers into a big slopestyle park.

And 1080 the dirty protesting hippies. :)
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