Is New Zealand a racist country?

Yes, those Maoris are getting everything their own way.
39
91%
No.
4
9%
 
Total voters : 43

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby CrustyMTB on Sat 19/Sep/09 8:07am

UnimatrixZero wrote:
fatwombat wrote:OneMattress: your observation is like one of those lovely assertions that can never be tested for right or wrong!


Ha ha, that's funny. Actually, it's group identify theory that is completely unfalsifiable.

I don't really know where you're coming from above. You can measure strength of identification, and therefore test the assertion. Social scientists have been doing it for years.
Can I just pull you 2 aside and have a quiet word, gently disagreeing with each other is not how WE do things around here, I expect abuse, flaming and death threats in the next few posts, or there will be TROUBLE!!

If this thread doesn't end with Police action or a protection order I will be VERY ANGRY!!!

On a different note, I just finished re-reading Jimmy Belich's "NZ wars" (read it at Uni a couple of decades ago). He reckons the land issue was over stressed and his theory is that political control was the dominant reason for the wars, therefore they were inevitable. Also interesting to note how easily the result of Titokawaru's (sp) uprising could have meant M. Laws would have had to find another pisspot town to be loud mouthed self important Mayopr of...
CrustyMTB
User avatar
"Tucker's Law "If some cunt can fuck something up, that cunt will pick the worst possible time to fucking fuck it up, cause that cunt's a cunt.""
Member for: 13 years 5 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby UnimatrixZero on Sat 19/Sep/09 8:34am

CrustyMTB wrote:
UnimatrixZero wrote:
fatwombat wrote:OneMattress: your observation is like one of those lovely assertions that can never be tested for right or wrong!


Ha ha, that's funny. Actually, it's group identify theory that is completely unfalsifiable.

I don't really know where you're coming from above. You can measure strength of identification, and therefore test the assertion. Social scientists have been doing it for years.
Can I just pull you 2 aside and have a quiet word, gently disagreeing with each other is not how WE do things around here, I expect abuse, flaming and death threats in the next few posts, or there will be TROUBLE!!

If this thread doesn't end with Police action or a protection order I will be VERY ANGRY!!!

On a different note, I just finished re-reading Jimmy Belich's "NZ wars" (read it at Uni a couple of decades ago). He reckons the land issue was over stressed and his theory is that political control was the dominant reason for the wars, therefore they were inevitable. Also interesting to note how easily the result of Titokawaru's (sp) uprising could have meant M. Laws would have had to find another pisspot town to be loud mouthed self important Mayopr of...


Fair point!

FatDingBat - you SUCK! :satan:

And you're Australian (I'm racist toward you).

And a sociologist (Therefore not in a position to tell ANYONE their theories are unfalsifiable).
UnimatrixZero
User avatar
"He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave."
Member for: 11 years 11 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby CrustyMTB on Sat 19/Sep/09 8:45am

UnimatrixZero wrote:
CrustyMTB wrote:
UnimatrixZero wrote:
fatwombat wrote:OneMattress: your observation is like one of those lovely assertions that can never be tested for right or wrong!


Ha ha, that's funny. Actually, it's group identify theory that is completely unfalsifiable.

I don't really know where you're coming from above. You can measure strength of identification, and therefore test the assertion. Social scientists have been doing it for years.
Can I just pull you 2 aside and have a quiet word, gently disagreeing with each other is not how WE do things around here, I expect abuse, flaming and death threats in the next few posts, or there will be TROUBLE!!

If this thread doesn't end with Police action or a protection order I will be VERY ANGRY!!!

On a different note, I just finished re-reading Jimmy Belich's "NZ wars" (read it at Uni a couple of decades ago). He reckons the land issue was over stressed and his theory is that political control was the dominant reason for the wars, therefore they were inevitable. Also interesting to note how easily the result of Titokawaru's (sp) uprising could have meant M. Laws would have had to find another pisspot town to be loud mouthed self important Mayopr of...


Fair point!

FatDingBat - you SUCK! :satan:

And you're Australian (I'm racist toward you).

And a sociologist (Therefore not in a position to tell ANYONE their theories are unfalsifiable).
That's more like it, now make up some implausible "facts" to support your arguments... oh wait he's a sociologist, carry on as you were!
CrustyMTB
User avatar
"Tucker's Law "If some cunt can fuck something up, that cunt will pick the worst possible time to fucking fuck it up, cause that cunt's a cunt.""
Member for: 13 years 5 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby fatwombat on Sat 19/Sep/09 6:27pm

UnimatrixZero wrote:FatDingBat - you SUCK! :satan: And you're Australian (I'm racist toward you). And a sociologist (Therefore not in a position to tell ANYONE their theories are unfalsifiable).


Hahahaha - and I'm race manager and chief marshal tomorrow, guess whose bike is going to be pulled over for a safety check at every corner!!! :satan: :satan: :lol:

Being Australian makes me SO superior that it is even a relief to be abused by you; when you spoke to me like an equal I wondered how I had sunk so low!!

Thanks too Crusty for yanking One Mattress's chain, it really brightened my day. You're all just wonderful, keep on being insane.
fatwombat
User avatar
"Our planet is the mental institution of the universe. - Goethe"
Member for: 8 years 3 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby UnimatrixZero on Sat 19/Sep/09 6:39pm

fatwombat wrote:
UnimatrixZero wrote:FatDingBat - you SUCK! :satan: And you're Australian (I'm racist toward you). And a sociologist (Therefore not in a position to tell ANYONE their theories are unfalsifiable).


Hahahaha - and I'm race manager and chief marshal tomorrow, guess whose bike is going to be pulled over for a safety check at every corner!!! :satan: :satan: :lol:

Being Australian makes me SO superior that it is even a relief to be abused by you; when you spoke to me like an equal I wondered how I had sunk so low!!

Thanks too Crusty for yanking One Mattress's chain, it really brightened my day. You're all just wonderful, keep on being insane.


:D
UnimatrixZero
User avatar
"He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave."
Member for: 11 years 11 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby fatwombat on Sat 19/Sep/09 7:58pm

Hey, people:
What do you think is E Dog Capoozle's problem that he keeps starting threads about racism? Do you think he might be secretly trying to recruit us for a NZ branch of the KKK?
fatwombat
User avatar
"Our planet is the mental institution of the universe. - Goethe"
Member for: 8 years 3 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby j2hyde on Sat 19/Sep/09 10:45pm

You're the sociologist, why don't you tell us what EDC's problem is?
j2hyde
User avatar
"I'm not for that. I'm for the ladies."
Member for: 12 years 2 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby fatwombat on Sun 20/Sep/09 12:31am

j2hyde wrote:You're the sociologist, why don't you tell us what EDC's problem is?


Sociologists analyse what groups of people do and why - because people acting as a society are different from people acting as individuals. You need to put that question to OneMattress - he's a psychologist, they try to understand why individuals do what they do. That's why OM thinks my opinions are worth less than your used toilet paper. :sly:

However, re-reading your comment I notice you didn't ask me to explain his motives, but his problem. That could well be a sociological issue - the socio-cultural entity with which he identifies is having a group identity crisis, the rules of society preclude him from attacking the out-groups which he perceives are threatening the identity of his ingroup, so he has to establish that those outgroups are guilty of violating a social norm more universally important than the fact that they are eroding his own ingroup's self-identity.

To put that as a hypothesis in simple English: assume he's a white straight male, he feels that women and gays and Maoris are taking over society but he's not allowed to criticise those groups or he'll be labelled sexist, racist, homophobic. So instead he tries to turn the racism label around to show that his ingroup (straight white males) is a victim group.

I am sure you will think this is REALLY REALLY BORING, you'll wonder why you ever asked me that question, you'll breathe a sigh of relief to know that there are not very many sociologists. The bad news is that most of them are not impartial analysts like me, most of them are working for organisations of women and gays and Maoris - helping them win the battle to shape and control our society.

But I want to thank you for asking, because I find it very cathartic to write these simplistic little analyses - I don't have to do any research, I don't even have to get all my facts right (!), I just have to write it so I sound like I know what I'm talking about.
fatwombat
User avatar
"Our planet is the mental institution of the universe. - Goethe"
Member for: 8 years 3 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby happybaboon on Sun 20/Sep/09 12:59am

Shit, could you put your stuff in bullet points or something? It's hard to read what you write when it's this late at night.

*Too hard to read that stuff.
*Bullet points are easier.
*There's bits of almond in my teeth still, even though I think I already blushed.
*Should I go to bed, or have some coffee and finish up the work I'm doing?
happybaboon
User avatar
"Proud owner of vorb's largest"
Member for: 15 years 10 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby fatwombat on Sun 20/Sep/09 7:12am

happybaboon wrote:Shit, could you put your stuff in bullet points or something? It's hard to read what you write when it's this late at night.

* Would love to oblige;
* It's not considered good form for academic writing;
* OneMattress will give me a hard time for doing it;
* I do use them a lot in business-type reports.

You should have gone for the coffee option :)
Last edited by fatwombat on Sun 20/Sep/09 4:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
fatwombat
User avatar
"Our planet is the mental institution of the universe. - Goethe"
Member for: 8 years 3 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby UnimatrixZero on Sun 20/Sep/09 7:34am

FatWomble, I believe the plural of Maori is Maori. :p

P.S. And I believe you ALMOST qualify for a tagline. :D
UnimatrixZero
User avatar
"He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave."
Member for: 11 years 11 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby fatwombat on Sun 20/Sep/09 4:32pm

UnimatrixZero wrote:FatWomble, I believe the plural of Maori is Maori.

English is pretty flexible about plurals because it adapts orthography and declension rules from the source languages of the words it poaches e.g. cows or cattle or kine; brothers or brethren; eggs or eyren; fish or fishes; etc. English plurals are generally with an 's' or with an 'n' if they are drawing on the germanic origins of the English language. 'Maori' as a plural is a recent innovation based on the primitive grammar of the word's source language - it is correct as a group noun for "the Maori people", but not mandatory as a plural for a group of individuals. That's what I reckon anyway, it's logical, it's consistent with historical usages.

You're doing a good job of maintaining your PC public persona, but if you live a double life, God might punish you by stealing your mojo halfway down a technical descent and causing you to experience the Endo phenomenon! :rolleyes:

Hey, awesome day at Wainui, I hope you got home safely without falling asleep at the wheel. The traffic coming into the city was diabolilcal.
fatwombat
User avatar
"Our planet is the mental institution of the universe. - Goethe"
Member for: 8 years 3 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby UnimatrixZero on Sun 20/Sep/09 5:46pm

fatwombat wrote:You're doing a good job of maintaining your PC public persona, but if you live a double life, God might punish you by stealing your mojo halfway down a technical descent and causing you to experience the Endo phenomenon! :rolleyes:


Shhhhhh.... :hmmm:

And BULLET POINTS! :exclaim:
UnimatrixZero
User avatar
"He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave."
Member for: 11 years 11 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby Ahad on Sun 20/Sep/09 5:50pm

fatwombat wrote:Looking at New Zealand: is there distinction on the basis of ethnicity? YES, Maori have legal rights and privileges that the rest of us don't get. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, just that it clearly happens. Do NZ-ers harbour negative feelings about other ethnicities? In my experience YES. NZ-ers seem to me to feel extremely strongly threatened by other people groups - especially Australians, Americans, Asians and Muslims. Maori and Pakeha share this xenophobia, plus there is a strong and growing negative sentiment between Maori and Pakeha (though for the most part this is manifested as a negative stereotype which people do not assign to individuals in the OTHER group). Do NZ-ers act out their negative feelings twoard other groups? Compared to 20 years ago, MUCH MORE. Compared to Yugoslavia, Rwanda, China, Vietnam, USA, UK, MUCH LESS.


What a big load of bollocks about NZers being extremely xenophobic against Australians and Americans! Where the hell are you from, coming out with such ridiculous IMO "we here in the US and Europe are just so more superior and sophisticated than you backwards NZers" statements?
We don't have much more negative feelings compared to 20yrs ago. The fact is is that many Pakeha are being confronted with issues that other countries around the globe don't even know about! This backlash and feeling threatened is a result of being confronted with these issues. A rennaisance of things Maori is going on at the moment, and many young educated Maori who can move in both worlds are coming through and challenging the status quo and stereotypes.

So what are these special legal rights and privileges that Maori "clearly" have? And if they are so privileged then why are they still statistically are on bottom in terms of health,education and socio-economically just like all other idigenous ethnicities all around the world? Of course its all their fault as they're all just lazy Maoris. Just like all those other lazy Aboriginies, Innuits, American Indians,Tibetans etc and so on. There seems to be a pattern here?

First point is that Maori were here first and it was their country. I know this is distressing for many of you to read, but it was a fact. However each tribe could be considered their own Nation so I know its not that simple.
My pakeha ancestor who was a whaler who moved here back in the 1840's, wouldn't have lasted 5min without the Maori chief of the area letting him stay here. Only around 4000 pakehas were in the whole of NZ at that time. Anyway pretty cool to have these new guys in the area with new technology, new skills, who had access to materials they could trade etc etc so a lot were married off with Maori wives of status including my Ol' Grandad . Within a few decades boat loads and boat loads of English, Irish, Scottish etc moved over and settled. Some chiefs agreed to let pakeha settle in their area etc but had absolutely no comprehension of just how many would be moving in. Soon the areas were chocker and the new settlers needed more land ad many just took it with the complete support of the Pakeha authorities. Tensions soon arose both just from ignorance and lack of respect. Land was taken, swindled, sacred sites to Maori were desecrated, cleared etc etc. And soon there were more Pakeha than Maori.

Yeah those Maori are just so priviledged to have their land and cultural identity taken off them, beaten for speaking their own language in school etc etc. No consideration was given to Maori rules and customs. Foreign Laws were introduced and sometimes huge tracts of land were confiscated illegally. A lot of these settlements are as a result of these illegal confiscations etc etc and so on. In how many other countries do they do that on this scale? Fucking nowhere!
Some NZers are very rascist, although will never admit to it. But on the whole I think we are very tolerant compared to some countries. At least here issues are raised, discussed and people are confronted. I just think this is healthy.

In countries like Australia and the US, Aboriginal and Indian issues aren't even discussed so of course you don't hear these negative sentiments. People in these countries are just totally ignorant and act like these people don't even exist.

NZers Rock! :thumbsup:
Ahad
Member for: 10 years 8 months

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby Ahad on Sun 20/Sep/09 5:52pm

Oh just read that you're an Australian! Figures! I rest my case! :lol:
Ahad
Member for: 10 years 8 months

National Politics | Politics | Sifting - Latest Posts

Who is online

45 Users browsing this website: Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 43 guests

REMEBER TO CLICK THE LINKS WHEN BUYING FROM VORB SUPPORTERS


  • GT Bicycles
  • Merlin Cycles
  • ProBikeKit
  • Vorb Shop
  • Wiggle
  • Chain Reaction Cycles