Is New Zealand a racist country?

Yes, those Maoris are getting everything their own way.
39
91%
No.
4
9%
 
Total voters : 43

Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby Nick_K on Fri 18/Sep/09 10:35am

Oli wrote:Those ideas aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.


Yes they are, we can't afford everything.

Id rather settle claims than give students a universal allowance though.
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby Oli on Fri 18/Sep/09 10:39am

Treaty claims don't suck up the entire tax take - there are lots of ways what's left over could be spent better, so my point stands.
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby Nick_K on Fri 18/Sep/09 10:56am

Oli wrote:Treaty claims don't suck up the entire tax take - there are lots of ways what's left over could be spent better, so my point stands.


Absolutely, as long as the better spent doesn't involve giving students a universal allowace.
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby Henry Dorset Case on Fri 18/Sep/09 11:05am

Meh, whatever. its pointless internet ranting, to no real purpose.
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby phunk on Fri 18/Sep/09 11:06am

Lynskey wrote:
pedalingkiwi wrote:
UnimatrixZero wrote:Anyway, it got me thinking...
Is it racist to hold a group of people to account for historical injustices?


No, it's not racist. It is in the interests of everyone to address the social & cultural effects of historical injustices - it's a win/win situation. If only comfortably off whitey's could get over what they feel it costs them in cold hard cash, and instead think about what the ongoing consequence for society as a whole of the historical injusices is. Viewing redress as an investment for society might be a useful reframe :)


Largely I agree with what you're saying...largely. The problem I think with the Maori/European situation in New Zealand is not the historical injustices but rather the fact that they seem to be having European ideals and systems enforced on them, despite a different cultural outlook. Sure, there were plenty of injustices and they no doubt had an effect on Maori/European relations back then but there are more important issues in our present times. If the Maori really do have a different cultural outlook than the Europeans (which I firmly believe, they are a more collectivist society with completely different ideas on so many issues, e.g. crime and responsibility, social hierarchy and especially punishment) then I fail to see how settlements are going to improve the situation. It seems to me that its a government quick fix to show they're doing at least something. However, it seems that the Maori are more than happy to take these quick fixes, when more emphasis should be on integrating their values into our systems. Give them a choice, either they can continue with the way of life we've enforced on them since the 19th Century, or they can have their systems legitimately integrated into ours. It would at least be interesting to see if it helped.


"Maori" and "European" are people too..
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby Oli on Fri 18/Sep/09 11:07am

Henry Dorset Case wrote:Meh, whatever. its pointless internet ranting, to no real purpose.
But that's what we DO!? :(
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby CrustyMTB on Fri 18/Sep/09 11:53am

Oli wrote:Treaty claims don't suck up the entire tax take - there are lots of ways what's left over could be spent better, so my point stands.
I thinks it's less of the tax take than the army, MP salaries or other irelevancies...

NZ isn't overly racist IMHO, but most of you are really ignorant, just saying...

HTH :)
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby Henry Dorset Case on Fri 18/Sep/09 12:13pm

CrustyMTB wrote:
Oli wrote:Treaty claims don't suck up the entire tax take - there are lots of ways what's left over could be spent better, so my point stands.
I thinks it's less of the tax take than the army, MP salaries or other irelevancies...

NZ isn't overly racist IMHO, but most of you are really ignorant, just saying...

HTH :)


most of my taxes are spent supporting useless breeders of the next generation of welfare dependents aren't they?
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby CrustyMTB on Fri 18/Sep/09 12:21pm

Henry Dorset Case wrote:
CrustyMTB wrote:
Oli wrote:Treaty claims don't suck up the entire tax take - there are lots of ways what's left over could be spent better, so my point stands.
I thinks it's less of the tax take than the army, MP salaries or other irelevancies...

NZ isn't overly racist IMHO, but most of you are really ignorant, just saying...

HTH :)


most of my taxes are spent supporting useless breeders of the next generation of welfare dependents aren't they?
Actually most is spent on the most useless sector of all, over 65 Baby boomer rental property owners, they're not even adding to the future pool of cheap labour/cannon fodder :angry:
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby happybaboon on Fri 18/Sep/09 12:43pm

Nick_K wrote:
Oli wrote:Treaty claims don't suck up the entire tax take - there are lots of ways what's left over could be spent better, so my point stands.


Absolutely, as long as the better spent doesn't involve giving students a universal allowace.

Yeah that's stupid. The allowance should be more accessable, but it should be merit-tested so that tards doing mong degrees that need only a few hours work a week can't get it. Sucks to be doing something more difficult that takes up a tonne of time while trying to live on $150/week.
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby DropKick on Fri 18/Sep/09 1:25pm

happybaboon wrote:
Nick_K wrote:
Oli wrote:Treaty claims don't suck up the entire tax take - there are lots of ways what's left over could be spent better, so my point stands.


Absolutely, as long as the better spent doesn't involve giving students a universal allowace.

Yeah that's stupid. The allowance should be more accessable, but it should be merit-tested so that tards doing mong degrees that need only a few hours work a week can't get it. Sucks to be doing something more difficult that takes up a tonne of time while trying to live on $150/week.


Meh, last year I managed to work enough to earn me 5 figures, on top of being in the upper end of my class at medical school and having a mrs. The hissy's doing BA's can get off their asses
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby Lynskey on Fri 18/Sep/09 1:44pm

phunk wrote:"Maori" and "European" are people too..


...What?
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby fatwombat on Fri 18/Sep/09 1:45pm

First point - it is a fundamental, proven axiom of sociology and psychology that people need to find an identity for themselves. To do this they need to be able to define who they are like and who they are unlike - US and THEM. This doesn't necessarily imply negative feelings toward "THEM", but there is necessarily a sense in every society of identifying who belongs and who is OTHER. To respond to the question in the topic, you need to define more clearly what you mean by "racist", because it is now a meaningless word that is thrown around to shame people into shutting up, whether used by the Maori Party or by their opponents. Do we mean "making distinctions on the basis of ethnic origin" or do we mean "dislike or distrust of people of different ethnic origins to one's own" or do we mean "taking active steps to express negativity toward certain ethnic groups"?

You'll notice I use "ethnic group" instead of race because "race" is a medieval concept with no basis in scientific analysis, usually based on superficial differences and commonalities. The word comes from an old english word meaning a channel (as still used for "sheep race" where farmers do their drenching or whatever). Therefore you find "race" being used to describe "the human race" or "male and female races" or "white race"/ "black race"/ "yellow race" etc. - these skin colour differences totally hide mindless hatreds such as those between Tutsi and Hutu; between Korean and Japanese; between Hungarians and Romanians, etc. So the question has to be answered - is prejudice based on skin colour inherently different to other ethnic prejudices? Also, is there a meaningful difference between holding a negative stereotype view of a people group and ascribing those negative attributes to all individuals within the group? e.g. I hold a negative stereotype in my mind about how "Americans" are, but I have lots of American friends and even though they tend to manifest the negatives from my stereotype, I still like them as people because of their personal positives. So I would define myself as having a vague prejudice against Americans but not racist because I don't automatically transfer a vague generalised negative to individuals within the group.

Looking at New Zealand: is there distinction on the basis of ethnicity? YES, Maori have legal rights and privileges that the rest of us don't get. I'm not saying that is right or wrong, just that it clearly happens. Do NZ-ers harbour negative feelings about other ethnicities? In my experience YES. NZ-ers seem to me to feel extremely strongly threatened by other people groups - especially Australians, Americans, Asians and Muslims. Maori and Pakeha share this xenophobia, plus there is a strong and growing negative sentiment between Maori and Pakeha (though for the most part this is manifested as a negative stereotype which people do not assign to individuals in the OTHER group). Do NZ-ers act out their negative feelings twoard other groups? Compared to 20 years ago, MUCH MORE. Compared to Yugoslavia, Rwanda, China, Vietnam, USA, UK, MUCH LESS.
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby thorg on Fri 18/Sep/09 1:51pm

Lynskey wrote:
phunk wrote:"Maori" and "European" are people too..


...What?
i think Phunk is suggesting that both of these 'groups' are not homogenious in nature, and in fact made up of individuals. Treating the group as some form of homogenious conglomeration ignors the diverse difference of individuals within the label, and quite innapropriate.

though I may be reading too much into it.
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Re: Is New Zealand A Racist Country?

Postby phunk on Fri 18/Sep/09 1:54pm

thorg wrote:
Lynskey wrote:
phunk wrote:"Maori" and "European" are people too..


...What?
i think Phunk is suggesting that both of these 'groups' are not homogenious in nature, and in fact made up of individuals. Treating the group as some form of homogenious conglomeration ignors the diverse difference of individuals within the label, and quite innapropriate.

though I may be reading too much into it.

Yeah somethign like that.

But also people are tribal, they group together with people like them, and then stereotype those that are different - be it race, gender, roadies etc.
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