Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby Bigfoot on Tue 24/Aug/10 10:34am

E Dogg Capizzle wrote:They should ban cheap booze, like beer and premixed drinks, so all the lower classes who drink beer and fizzy alcohol can't buy it. That would solve the problem right there.


I got ID'd buying two bottles of red wine and a bottle of expensive gin the other day... I was shocked (beard and retreating hairline and all).
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby philstar on Tue 24/Aug/10 10:57am

wuffy wrote:
Research found that 92 per cent of New Zealand's heavy drinkers were 20 years and over, and 70 per cent were 25 and over.


bad use of statistics, if we have a closer look 22% are between 20 and 25, 8% are between 18 ( or maybe 16) and 20. so we have a 4.4% per year for 20-25's and a 4% per year for 18-20 and a 1.2% per year for 25-80 (quite arbitrary age average). but that’s just cos old people cant handle the hangover any more.

I'm pro the age split, even though I don't think it will work. :)
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby Conners on Tue 24/Aug/10 12:00pm

philstar wrote:...cant handle the hangover any more.

Well put. I drink feck all these days, not because I don't like being drunk (quite the opposite in fact), but I just value my time the next day waaaaaay more these days.
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby Wobbler on Tue 24/Aug/10 12:15pm

kiwi_zg wrote:Drunken-youths-trash-house
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/local/4053698/Drunken-youths-trash-house

Obviously many of the younger drinkers don't deserve to drink, as many can't do it in a respectful manner.

We could take some lessons from Italy and France and other parts of continental Europe where drinking wine at the family dinner at a young age is part of the culture. But I'm thinking is too late in NZ, the damage is done.
It will probably take a few generations of ween of the binge drinking mentality.


europe is classy
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby northernmonkey on Tue 24/Aug/10 1:19pm

Trouble with prohibition - even limited prohibition is it doesn't work and always has unintended consequences. Make it to hard for the kids to get boozed and they'll find another way to get wasted. Make it too expensive and they'll turn to something else. You can't stop people getting caned if they want to.
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby wuffy on Tue 24/Aug/10 1:33pm

northernmonkey wrote:Trouble with prohibition - even limited prohibition is it doesn't work and always has unintended consequences. Make it to hard for the kids to get boozed and they'll find another way to get wasted. Make it too expensive and they'll turn to something else. You can't stop people getting caned if they want to.

:withstupid:

You can't change culture with simple laws.
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby bigJIMMY on Tue 24/Aug/10 2:28pm

you can change culture with laws. if they actually mean something wuffy.... for example
I would vote for a change to the swedish system. http://www.systembolaget.se/NR/rdonlyre ... 03_eng.pdf

18 in bars and 20 offlicence
then govenment controlled bottle shops become the only offlicence. in sweden 'systembolaget' are adjacent to the supermarkets. they are only by the supermarkets, and only open short hours. i can't quiet remember but it is something like 11am - 7pm mon-fri. and they are not open in the weekend.

what really pisses me off as i drive around listening to leighton and danny on newstalk + their dipshit senial callers is how they bitch about the youth of today creating all the problems with booze. and the way RTD's have currupted our youth.......
when i was 16-18 we would grab a bottle of kuntucky gold, 1.5 of cock ditch half the coke and tip in the gold. smash the whole lot over a couple of hours the create havoc. has anything really changed?
blame the youth, but the rolemodels arn't there to show them otherwise..... these new laws will do nothing to the bigger problem of the 20-50 year old mums/dads coming home from the pub and smashing up the kids :cry:
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby wuffy on Tue 24/Aug/10 2:32pm

bigJIMMY wrote:you can change culture with laws. if they actually mean something wuffy.... for example
I would vote for a change to the swedish system.
:

Let me re-phrase, you can't change a whole country's youth culture with a few simple laws.
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby Conners on Tue 24/Aug/10 2:38pm

wuffy wrote:
bigJIMMY wrote:you can change culture with laws. if they actually mean something wuffy.... for example
I would vote for a change to the swedish system.
:

Let me re-phrase, you can't change a whole country's youth culture with a few simple laws.

So there you have it. Youth culture is the problem. So bloody well sort your shit out Mr Youthful.
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby mudguard on Tue 24/Aug/10 2:39pm

It's a tricky one. Usually the response to upping taxes is dropping the alcohol content by enough to slide it under the next tax bracket.

I still think it's a good idea making it a little awkward to obtain. IE not on every street corner.I think ID should be mandatory with every purchase. Doesn't matter if you're 18 or 80. You have to produce it. So people get in the habit of doing it.
18+ cards for those who don't drive/travel.
I've talked to someone about the Swedish system. Seems like a good idea too. Didn't whoever runs the MCG note that they sold way more alcohol for the NZvAus rugby match than they do for any other game? Kinds of sums us kiwis up really.
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby j2hyde on Tue 24/Aug/10 7:08pm

wuffy wrote:
bigJIMMY wrote:you can change culture with laws. if they actually mean something wuffy.... for example
I would vote for a change to the swedish system.
:

Let me re-phrase, you can't change a whole country's youth culture with a few simple laws.


Sure you can, it happens all the time. What a ridiculous thing to claim.

Your argument is about as dumb as the ones boy racers make about how nothing can stop them driving around like dickheads in noisy cars.
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby Owen on Tue 24/Aug/10 7:45pm

wuffy wrote:You can't change culture with simple laws.



What would you suggest?
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby Joel on Tue 24/Aug/10 8:09pm

Joel wrote:i think the off license sale of alchohol should be limited to those over 35, and pub entry limited to over 35 for guys but over 18 for chicks.
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby wuffy on Tue 24/Aug/10 8:21pm

j2hyde wrote:
wuffy wrote:
bigJIMMY wrote:you can change culture with laws. if they actually mean something wuffy.... for example
I would vote for a change to the swedish system.
:

Let me re-phrase, you can't change a whole country's youth culture with a few simple laws.


Sure you can, it happens all the time. What a ridiculous thing to claim.

Your argument is about as dumb as the ones boy racers make about how nothing can stop them driving around like dickheads in noisy cars.

Binge drinking, it will happen as long as there a sources for alcohol, if you stop people from buying it directly they'll find a supplier. You can't just stop someone from doing something they like, they will find a way to do it, even if it means its illegal.

Nothing CAN stop them (Boyracers), nothing HAS. All they do now is do it in places less centre city and more rural and all its done is get more complaints from other places, i.e. Rangiora etc.

What we NEED to do is look at the problem, and instead of trying to stop people from getting alcohol easily, find a way to stop them from binge drinking with it when they get it, or getting totally hammered for no reason. I'm not suggesting anything, because i'm not a politician or any qualified authority. I'm just saying what they are planning on doing isn't going to change anything, like the guy on stuff said, they're using youth as a scapegoat for a bigger problem.
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Re: New Alcohol Laws

Postby j2hyde on Tue 24/Aug/10 9:16pm

wuffy wrote:Nothing CAN stop them (Boyracers), nothing HAS. All they do now is do it in places less centre city and more rural and all its done is get more complaints from other places, i.e. Rangiora etc.


Incorrect. It would be very easy to simply ban jap imports, then ban vehicle modifications and require compulsory comprehensive insurance. And jail people who don't pay fines, or just look the other way when the cops systemically beat the shit out of repeat offenders (like they do in Queensland).

You probably haven't had the chance to get out of your very small country and look at other parts of the world but there's plenty of places that have dealt with public nuisance issues like boyracers very successfully.

The only reason NZ has a boyracer problem is because of lax laws and insufficient enforcement. And the cops have more serious issues to deal with anyway.

Alcohol is a bit different but not much. Hardcore wasters will abuse other substances if alcohol supply is restricted but the majority will cut down
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