Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby shmoodiver on Sat 28/Feb/09 11:41am

we get them having meetings in our shop, reminds me of the southpark episode where kyle moves to san francisco and all the parents are smelling their own farts.... smug
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby bugle on Sat 28/Feb/09 1:50pm

If I was 10 (or 20) years younger I'd be up for 2 years of govt funded trail building in a heart beat, in fact fuck it, I may just have my midlife crisis early and go do it.
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby wachtourak on Sat 28/Feb/09 2:10pm

I'd rather someone spent 50 million dollars on a chairlift serviced mountain bike park somewhere.

Would be a hell of a lot better for the country/economy than some glorified footpath down the middle of the country.
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby shmoodiver on Sat 28/Feb/09 2:20pm

wachtourak wrote:I'd rather someone spent 50 million dollars on a chairlift serviced mountain bike park somewhere.

Would be a hell of a lot better for the country/economy than some glorified footpath down the middle of the country.

chairlift at eskdale park in the hawkesbay would be the tits
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby Colin on Sat 28/Feb/09 2:37pm

wachtourak wrote:I'd rather someone spent 50 million dollars on a chairlift serviced mountain bike park somewhere.

Would be a hell of a lot better for the country/economy than some glorified footpath down the middle of the country.


Rubbish.

Demand from mountainbikers NZ prepared to pay for a ride to the top barely pays for the capital tied up & mainenance for a couple of buses and trailers.

There are not enough people willing to put their $ where their mouth is to make spending on a chairlift something that will ever get serious consideration.

Hell, even when the chairlift is sitting there all summer (capital and maintenance fully paid for by skier), Coronet can only squeeze marginal operating costs out of mountainbikers to run their chair for only a handful of days.

At least Otago Rail Trail, QCT etc get regular use. Every summer, their are thousands of cycle tourists drifting up and down the country spending $ in shops / accomadation / tourist attractions / bars day after day.
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby xcwander on Sat 28/Feb/09 3:09pm

wachtourak wrote:I'd rather someone spent 50 million dollars on a chairlift serviced mountain bike park somewhere.

Would be a hell of a lot better for the country/economy than some glorified footpath down the middle of the country.


A chairlift doesn't stack up for lots of reasons

Its a big capital item which has to be imported so the funds are going off shore and not being reused multple times in the domestic ecconoy. I hate to say it but a chairlift is targetted at a niche group of mountain bikers ,yes sizable but still small when compared to the addressable market a national cycleway has.

As Colin said, coronet peak stuggles to break even on running costs and its already sunk the captial cost of the lift, and its in a great location for tourists.

A national cycle way would probably get used by a tourist anywhere from a few days to several months on a trip, and every day they have to eat, sleep, drink etc. And each day will be a different place, so your getting high repeats from a single user, spread across the country which is great for lots of small towns etc. So lots of people get to benefit. A chairlift will be a few days on a trip and very localised, we have them already and it wouldn't result in a lot of down stream spend of small town pubs renovation accommodation, farm homesteads doing B&B. I think you'd find the $50M spent by the Govt on a national cycle way will actually result in huge amount of private spending as well, and thats great as it gets money flowing and locals in jobs
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby Weevil on Sat 28/Feb/09 3:10pm

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one they say. Personally I think the proposed 50Mill is better off being spent elsewhere, i.e. IMPROVING THE SHITTY NEW ZEALAND ROADS etc. Christ some of the roads in the South island look and feel as though they have been strafed by a fucking Stuka. Maybe if the current NZL govt tries fixing whats already broke instead of splashing out on un-needed new crap then some improvements may eventually get made. Dont get me wrong I love cycling, absolutely love it, if it had breasts and a vag I would marry cycling but economic sense to go ahead with a National Cycleway? lol I dont think so. To me it doesnt make sense (at the present time) let alone economic sense.
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby Simonk on Sat 28/Feb/09 7:43pm

thorg - please address the topic. If you don't like the idea, why not? If you say 'cos there is a lack of detail, I say 'What do you expect from a one day Think Tank?' A detailed plan would be what comes next.

If you don't like this CAN press release, why not? If it's simply 'cos you don't like CAN, save it for another discussion thread. They've done in this press release exactly what you'd expect of a pro-cycling lobby group.

Sorry - I took you literally when you said "X3" ('I'm with stupid'). My bad.


Weevil - $50 mill spent "improving shitty roads" wouldn't do squat. $100 mill has been spent on feasibility studies alone for Transmission Gully. The thing is that roads built to carry cars & trucks, etc are way, way, way, way more expensive than cycle ways.
As far as the economic sense goes - it's about creating jobs AND a tourism icon. Tourism makes money.
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby thorg on Sat 28/Feb/09 7:55pm

Colin wrote:Rubbish.

Demand from mountainbikers NZ prepared to pay for a ride to the top barely pays for the capital tied up & mainenance for a couple of buses and trailers.

There are not enough people willing to put their $ where their mouth is to make spending on a chairlift something that will ever get serious consideration.

Hell, even when the chairlift is sitting there all summer (capital and maintenance fully paid for by skier), Coronet can only squeeze marginal operating costs out of mountainbikers to run their chair for only a handful of days.

At least Otago Rail Trail, QCT etc get regular use. Every summer, their are thousands of cycle tourists drifting up and down the country spending $ in shops / accomadation / tourist attractions / bars day after day.

To be fair, the trails you mention would not be there and free to use if it werent for a large amount of taxpayer subsidy. As with pretty much ALL of NZs walkways. Walk one of NZs great Walks and the taxpayer is subsidising you to the tune of $70 per night (and remember, the hut fees are the highest for these walks).

So saying that a chair lift is not financially viable is a moot point, as none of the walks/rides you mention are either.

Given a day or two I could work out the cost per rider (to the taxpayer) of the Otago rail trail - but all this is really getting into an area where we need no go. The real benefit of any new track will never be financial, it will be social. Lets not pretend any else.

this trail is a great idea because of what it represents and what it can offer communities. Dollars might be a side effect for some communities, but if the validity is based upon $$ it wont ever be built. It should be built because the benefits are so great and wide. The benefits of a chairlift based park are great, but far more narrow and localised.
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby thorg on Sat 28/Feb/09 8:04pm

Simonk wrote:thorg - please address the topic. If you don't like the idea, why not? If you say 'cos there is a lack of detail, I say 'What do you expect from a one day Think Tank?' A detailed plan would be what comes next.

I like the idea, I like it alot. never said any different :eh:
Simonk wrote:If you don't like this CAN press release, why not? If it's simply 'cos you don't like CAN, save it for another discussion thread. They've done in this press release exactly what you'd expect of a pro-cycling lobby group.

Sorry - I took you literally when you said "X3" ('I'm with stupid'). My bad.
My reasons for not liking CAN are irrelivant to this thread.

My reasons for not liking the press release is there basis of this track being of economic benefit. It allows for decisions to be made based upon return on investment.
[/quote]
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby nostromo on Sun 1/Mar/09 8:20am

Simonk wrote:Weevil - $50 mill spent "improving shitty roads" wouldn't do squat. $100 mill has been spent on feasibility studies alone for Transmission Gully. The thing is that roads built to carry cars & trucks, etc are way, way, way, way more expensive than cycle ways.
As far as the economic sense goes - it's about creating jobs AND a tourism icon. Tourism makes money.

Simons absolutely right here, you need to understand the Mega costs of roading for vehicles in NZ due to our topography. They are planning to put in a new road in my suburb..840m long and it will be 3 million..or so they say so therefore it will be much more.
The annual Transit budget used to be about 1.1 Billion, don't know what it is now, and that's Nationally funded roads only, i.e. half?
Transmission gully will cost 1 Billion?..yeah right!
50 mill is a drop in the bucket in the big scheme. Hell Dunedin hospital paid 18 mill out to a nonexistant computer company without even noticing.
Hence why John Key is so keen on the idea as its small change.
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby thorg on Sun 1/Mar/09 9:26am

nostromo wrote:
Simonk wrote:Weevil - $50 mill spent "improving shitty roads" wouldn't do squat. $100 mill has been spent on feasibility studies alone for Transmission Gully. The thing is that roads built to carry cars & trucks, etc are way, way, way, way more expensive than cycle ways.
As far as the economic sense goes - it's about creating jobs AND a tourism icon. Tourism makes money.

Simons absolutely right here, you need to understand the Mega costs of roading for vehicles in NZ due to our topography. They are planning to put in a new road in my suburb..840m long and it will be 3 million..or so they say so therefore it will be much more.
The annual Transit budget used to be about 1.1 Billion, don't know what it is now, and that's Nationally funded roads only, i.e. half?
Transmission gully will cost 1 Billion?..yeah right!
50 mill is a drop in the bucket in the big scheme. Hell Dunedin hospital paid 18 mill out to a nonexistant computer company without even noticing.
Hence why John Key is so keen on the idea as its small change.
yes, good sense, but his same arguements can be turned back against this proposeal also. Spent inthe right place, 50mil could improve the commuter cyclists ride a whole heap in our main centres.

And they are talking 50mil construction cost for this track. Like all projects of this nature that figure will trebble (at least). And that is without considering the feasibility process, design process, environment court etc.

So lets not try to compare apples with oranges anymore. We will find this proposal turning into smoke and morrors before our eyes if we do.
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby EpicXC on Thu 12/Mar/09 4:02pm

According to Bill English, Kiwirail is worthless (http://www.guide2.co.nz/politics/news/k ... nt/11/6076), so why don't we rip up the rail lines and make the New Zealand Rail Trail. :satan:

Here are the potential routes.
Image
Image
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby Missguidedrider on Thu 12/Mar/09 4:08pm

I reckon the cash would be better spent on several urban commutor ways for cyclists in some of the major centres.
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Re: National Cycleway Good Economic Sense, Say Cyclists

Postby shmoodiver on Thu 12/Mar/09 4:27pm

Missguidedrider wrote:I reckon the cash would be better spent on several urban commutor ways for cyclists in some of the major centres.


you're probably right, but i've always found you to be a little misguided :o
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