Your opinion

No, leave our conservation estate alone
42
57%
Yes, we need it out of the ground to be rich and happy like Australia
9
12%
Yes, we need to create jobs/income in those areas
7
9%
I'm still waiting for all the facts before making a decision
16
22%
 
Total voters : 74

Keyhole Surgery And Postage Stamps

Postby mark2c on Tue 30/Mar/10 6:04pm

This from the Coromandel Watchdog group.

Note it is to scale... Even ignoring the pit, the tailings and cyanide treatment areas are huge:
Postage Stamp.gif
One small postage stamp for man kind
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Re: Keyhole Surgery And Postage Stamps

Postby hickie on Tue 30/Mar/10 6:14pm

mark2c wrote:This from the Coromandel Watchdog group.

Note it is to scale... Even ignoring the pit, the tailings and cyanide treatment areas are huge:


That post is so full of fail...
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby mark2c on Tue 30/Mar/10 6:23pm

Post? Content? Poster? Lies? Please clarify
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby Wobbler on Tue 30/Mar/10 6:25pm

where does the anthrax get piled?
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Tue 30/Mar/10 6:27pm

Anthrax are awesome, especially on The Persistence of Time. :)
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby mark2c on Tue 30/Mar/10 6:36pm

mark2c wrote:Ah lets see:
1) Approx 1% of mining profits are retained in NZ.
2) Mining income is one-off (here today gone tomorrow), conservation and tourism are ongoing.
3) Biodiversity may have low dollar value, but high importance.
...


Seems I've probably shamefully overstated the case. While 1% of the sales is supposed to be paid, it seems that the miners have a few schemes running that results in them only paying 0.1% (ie one tenth of what they are supposed to): http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2 ... 47f908795b

Here is a quote:

Royalty payments for precious metals were recently doubled from 1% to 2% of sales value. But Statistics New Zealand figures show that in 2009, the mining industry made sales of $6 billion and paid royalties of just $6.5 million.
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby hickie on Tue 30/Mar/10 9:59pm

mark2c wrote:Post? Content? Poster? Lies? Please clarify


They are trying to discredit Brownlee's comment about the amount of land in the country being open up to possible mining is the equivalent to a postage stamp in relation to size of Eden park. This was an attempt by Brownlee to bring the point down to a human scale that most people could understand.

The group you have quoted have stuck together 2 completely unrelated images that completely fails to to disprove his point thus it is full of fail...
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Tue 30/Mar/10 10:09pm

hickie wrote:
mark2c wrote:Post? Content? Poster? Lies? Please clarify


They are trying to discredit Brownlee's comment about the amount of land in the country being open up to possible mining is the equivalent to a postage stamp in relation to size of Eden park. This was an attempt by Brownlee to bring the point down to a human scale that most people could understand.

The group you have quoted have stuck together 2 completely unrelated images that completely fails to to disprove his point thus it is full of fail...


Actually, doesn't it quite effectively show what a retarded use of simile it was in the first place? :eh:
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby Kevin Hague on Tue 30/Mar/10 10:46pm

I reckon. Alert readers will have noticed that the Government's claims about what they are proposing seem to change almost daily. Brownlee said the land being considered for mining was like a postcard on Eden park. (Not sure what the denominator is there). Then TVNZ wheeled out a mathematician who said it was more like 121 postcards on Eden park. Then Gerry said he didn't just mean the pitch, he meant the whole complex (not sure if Eden Park Number 2 is included), but surely this makes his original error even worse? Epic Fail.

The point of what Coromandel Watchdog (not a happy dog) did with the images was to show that even if the area they are actually mining is relatively small, the area required for the infrastructure of modern (non-alluvial) Gold mining - open cast or underground actually - is very large. Compared with Eden Park of course.
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby nostromo on Tue 30/Mar/10 11:07pm

I agree with this, we should definitely mine Eden Park.
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby mark2c on Wed 31/Mar/10 8:26am

hickie wrote:
mark2c wrote:Post? Content? Poster? Lies? Please clarify


They are trying to discredit Brownlee's comment about the amount of land in the country being open up to possible mining is the equivalent to a postage stamp in relation to size of Eden park. This was an attempt by Brownlee to bring the point down to a human scale that most people could understand.

The group you have quoted have stuck together 2 completely unrelated images that completely fails to to disprove his point thus it is full of fail...


Thanks for the clarification Hickie. Perhaps you could you please post a picture of a surgical tailings dam and cyanide processing plant of the type Gerry Brownlee is proposing?
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby j2hyde on Wed 31/Mar/10 12:06pm

Perhaps you could post a picture of a storm in a teacup? Or even a pic some greenies having a knee-jerk whinge about some "problem" that doesn't even exist (ie, the actual existence of a mine in so called schedule 4 land) :)
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby mark2c on Wed 31/Mar/10 1:07pm

Sorry to disappoint you J2H, I'll just stay on topic.

Go 'marginalise' some where else ah.
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby nostromo on Wed 31/Mar/10 1:14pm

Kevin Hague wrote:
Kazmeistyr wrote: I'd be thinking most tourists come for a ski, go smell some farty smelling place, and appreciate how green the joint is. Get to see greatly varying landscapes in a few hours drive from one to the next.

I really don't think that mining would effect tourism at all. Not a bean. The Stockton mine on the west coast doesn't stop anyone from visiting Buller( in fact probably increases visitors). the shitty weather might tho!

So, the point in arguing against this mining thing with "oh noes! The tourists will stop coming!" is all a bit shit, really.


The tourism argument is that for many of the tourists who come here, the drawcard (or at least one of them) is the idea that this is a country where the natural world is still largely unspoiled and where New Zealanders care passionately about keeping it that way. That's why the "100% Pure" marketing campaign is widely recognised as the top tourism branding in the world and why it has had such longevity (and actually its predecessor was pretty much the same). Like any brand it doesn't necessarily tell a 100% accurate story about NZ, but the greater the divergence from reality, the more the brand risks failing. "100% Pure" and "Clean, green" had already started to come under fire from important sources like the Guardian and NY Times, who were pointing out, for example, the shameful deterioration in fresh water quality as a result of more extensive and intensive dairying.

But this risk to our brand is nothing like the risk, pointed out this week by The Economist (hardly a left wing rag or greenie journal) of sticking mines in our places with the highest conservation values, such as our national parks. Even if they aren't visible from where the tourists are, the knowledge that, for example, Paparoa National Park has an open cast mine in it, will damage the integrity of a tourist's 100% Pure experience.

And, by the way, it isn't just tourism that trades on this brand. Take a look at the overseas advertising for NZ wool, dairy, meat etc etc. It's all based on the same brand, and ALL at risk if we take actions that can reasonably be expected to undermine the brand.

That's the economic argument. While it's compelling and important, my reason for opposing the Government's plan is that I love these places and want to protect them, for their own sake, and for future generations to experience. Nothing to count there, though.

I wonder which future NZ'er are going to be able to enjoy a view of the Coromandel? Privileged, well-off people with university degrees? (and do they know there's better country in the Ruahine's and North Tararuas even if they're only Forest parks?).

I don't think future generations of kids from Mangere or my Autistic son are going to ever go to the Coromandel and be dissapointed their view is disrupted by a mine. Meantime I reckon they would benefit from the returns to the govt that would come out of economic development like mining.

Your economic arguments are just supposition at this stage, and I can't think of many other options for improving our economy.
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Re: Mining Conservation Land

Postby Kyle on Wed 31/Mar/10 1:52pm

nostromo wrote:I agree with this, we should definitely mine Eden Park.


I have a 10% discount card for Mad Ackballahazars discount guns and miltary hardware emporium if you want it.
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