Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby nostromo on Fri 30/Oct/09 11:07am

How about we got to those young girls thinking about going on dpb and offer to pay them the dpb if they don't have kids? Reverse dpb I call it.
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby philstar on Fri 30/Oct/09 11:20am

phunk wrote:
happybaboon wrote:The problem arises when he introduces the idea of paying poor people to get sterilised... That's a little iffy.

We pay poor people to breed, thats more retarded.

:withstupid:
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby happybaboon on Fri 30/Oct/09 12:31pm

phunk wrote:
happybaboon wrote:The problem arises when he introduces the idea of paying poor people to get sterilised... That's a little iffy.

We pay poor people to breed, thats more retarded.

We pay people to look after a childrens so that the kids don't suffer. Regrettably the effect of our generosity is that some of those people may take advantage of the system. The cost of the advantage takers is outweighed by the advantages gained from attempting to look after poor kids.

Taking away welfare won't stop poor people from having kids - Look at any 3rd world country. Those countries are packed with dead poor people having loads of kids, even though there may be a complete lack of social welfare. All that removing benefits will do is make poor folk even more poverty stricken than before, and then they'll be more likely to committ crimes against people who have got money. All of a sudden we'd be living in South Africa. That wouldn't be cool.
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby FLATULENTFRIEND on Fri 30/Oct/09 12:45pm

There are lots of 'poor' families that have wonderful kids :thumbsup: so bad kids is not a socio-economic issue alone.
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby sifter on Fri 30/Oct/09 12:46pm

phunk wrote:
znomit wrote:Think he has finally lost it...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3 ... hael-Laws/

Well actually as horrible as it sounds, he is quite right, the single biggest cause of a drop in the crime rate in America is Roe v Wade which led to an increased rate of abortion, those that are more likely to get an abortion are those that are lower socio-economic and do not want kids, the very type of parents that if they do have kids are more likely to turn into criminals.


you've read freakonomics huh?
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby phunk on Fri 30/Oct/09 12:57pm

sifter wrote:
phunk wrote:
znomit wrote:Think he has finally lost it...
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3 ... hael-Laws/

Well actually as horrible as it sounds, he is quite right, the single biggest cause of a drop in the crime rate in America is Roe v Wade which led to an increased rate of abortion, those that are more likely to get an abortion are those that are lower socio-economic and do not want kids, the very type of parents that if they do have kids are more likely to turn into criminals.


you've read freakonomics huh?


:D
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby phunk on Fri 30/Oct/09 1:36pm

happybaboon wrote:
phunk wrote:
happybaboon wrote:The problem arises when he introduces the idea of paying poor people to get sterilised... That's a little iffy.

We pay poor people to breed, thats more retarded.

We pay people to look after a childrens so that the kids don't suffer. Regrettably the effect of our generosity is that some of those people may take advantage of the system. The cost of the advantage takers is outweighed by the advantages gained from attempting to look after poor kids.

Taking away welfare won't stop poor people from having kids - Look at any 3rd world country. Those countries are packed with dead poor people having loads of kids, even though there may be a complete lack of social welfare. All that removing benefits will do is make poor folk even more poverty stricken than before, and then they'll be more likely to committ crimes against people who have got money. All of a sudden we'd be living in South Africa. That wouldn't be cool.


Why not remove the kids from the parents instead, at least that way the kids might actually recieve some benefit.
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby jo on Fri 30/Oct/09 1:49pm

They did that in oz (for a slightly different reason) but arguably for the same intended outcome. Read up about the Stolen Generation. Muchos bad PR.
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby phunk on Fri 30/Oct/09 2:05pm

Im not advocating summararily removing children from their parents, but if some parents are unable to care for their children on their own, then instead of handing them money which by and large has only increased the problem, that a better use of those funds would be to directly care for the children. Poor parents dont become better parents by giving them money, mostly it just encourages them to have more children and gain more money so they can spend more time at the pub.

And then there are the parents who would benefit from some state assistance to look after their own children.
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby pissface on Fri 30/Oct/09 3:05pm

FLATULENTFRIEND wrote:There are lots of 'poor' families that have wonderful kids :thumbsup: so bad kids is not a socio-economic issue alone.

damn right.

if we get back to the actual issues, Laws has carefully defined it as relating to "underclass" , using a definition that specifically includes such characteristics as criminality. He also apparently made the suggestion re child abuse.
stuff wrote:"Mr Laws raised the idea of sterilisation for the "underclass" in exchange for a $10,000 payment as a solution to the child abuse problem."


so, all the people on the internet banging on about it being defined as "lower socioeconomic" people are either betraying their own snobbery, or indulging in knee-jerkism, or just plain unable to read.

Also, this being suggested as a solution to child abuse completely ignores the fact that abuse occurs across all sectors and classes of society, though Laws carefully drags in all that stuff about criminality, drug abuse, CYFS involvement, etc. in order to make a case that the "right thinking" members of society can emotionally attach themselves to.
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby sifter on Fri 30/Oct/09 3:13pm

I hate Michael Laws and his masterful exploitation of New Zealand's appalling media.

I'd be interested to know how many of us would never have been born if a policy like this had existed when we/either of our parents/any of our grandparents etc were conceived...
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby mudguard on Fri 30/Oct/09 3:55pm

If you can't afford them then you shouldn't have them
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby Derryn Hinch on Fri 30/Oct/09 4:19pm

I haven't bothered reading this thread as the title is a statement of the bleedin' obvious.

There might as well be a thread stating that the sky is blue......
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby Oli on Fri 30/Oct/09 10:35pm

phunk wrote:Im not advocating summararily removing children from their parents, but if some parents are unable to care for their children on their own, then instead of handing them money which by and large has only increased the problem, that a better use of those funds would be to directly care for the children.
At the risk of coming in 8 hours too late, who the hell is going to look after the children in this scenario? :eh:
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Re: Michael Laws Is A Fucking Tool

Postby UnimatrixZero on Fri 30/Oct/09 10:46pm

Kind of related to Oli's question (but not really), what ever happened to closed adoption in NZ?
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