Postby thorg on Tue 6/Jul/04 4:11pm

PedalOn,

just what are you suggesting?
that current F1 is exciting to watch? (when 1 team can make 4 pit stops to the others 3 and still win?)

That old women drive wrc cars?

This thread is about how F1 has become boring to watch, not about how much of a prat NM may be.

I dont care what the cars are, or who is driving them, I just want to see skill and competition.

F1 has plenty of skill, but little competition.

*preparing myself for a flaming*
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Postby Colin on Tue 6/Jul/04 4:54pm

A bit to answer there Thorg

that current F1 is exciting to watch? (when 1 team can make 4 pit stops to the others 3 and still win?)

I watch more than just the moving pictures on my screen (or on the track in front of me for Melbourne :) )- I will sometimes have live timing from Formula1.com (thanks Daz) and I will certainly be thinking about who has qualified better than I might expect and possibly be running light fuel. who is catching who back through the feild, who has or has not made a pit stop. I'm also interested in cars that are not red. How are the Jag's going against the Saubers or the Toyata against the ? Jordans ?

I've tried to like IRL but for me it is too much of a lottery - there will be a crash in the last 30 or 20 or 5 laps to bring out the pace car and then there will be a sprint to the line and someone who has driven clear at the front all race will be swmped by a freight train of four cars drafting each other and end up 5th.

I dont care what the cars are, or who is driving them, I just want to see skill and competition

I agree that there is not enough close racing in F1 - I blame the importance of areodynamics. A few years ago the regulations changed to narrow the track (width) of the cars and introduced grooved tyres which significantly reduced mechanical grip and increased the importance of areodynamic grip.

Now a quicker car can get to within 1/2 a second of the car in front, but can't follow any closer around a corner because it gets into dirty air and losses areodynamic grip. By the time the fast car gets out of the corner and can hit the gas (which is later than if he wasn't in dirty air) the slower car has got the jump and the fast car can not pass on the straight.

Get to the braking area and because of the power of the carbon fibre brakes, braking distances are incredably short (the cars pull about 4 or 5 g's under braking - people like Scott Dixon say the biggest adjustment they need to make when first experiencing F1 is the braking) there is still little chance to pass safely unless the car in front is being driven by a skilless boozo - and there are not too many of them in the top 3/4s of the F1 grid.

Schumacher won in France because of his skill (and the superiority of his tyres at the end of each stint). He is able to put in fast laps when he needs to. He could have won the race with three stops (he was already in front after two because Renault failed to bring Alonso in on lap 29 or 30 after MS pitted on 28 - by the time Alonso pitted MS was 4s in front because he drove faster on full(ish) tanks than Alonso on empty tanks an worn Michelins). Taking four stops and trusting / knowing / hoping Schumacher could do quicker laps to make up the difference was the Ferrari teams way of playing it safe. They are the best because they leave nothing to chance.


old women drive wrc cars

The difference between V8 Supercars and Supermarket cars referred to in a previous post is similar to the difference between Leob's Xsara and that one driven by a grey haired person past my office just now.

This thread is about how F1 has become boring to watch, not about how much of a prat NM may be.

The title of the tread is that Mansell says F1 Sucks. That is Mansell's opinion, not a fact and certalnly not my opinion.

* I hope this isn't a flaming - just my point of view about a sport I follow with interest *
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Postby jeremyb on Tue 6/Jul/04 4:58pm

Nigel Mansell is a pom, all poms whinge, it doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest drivers ever!
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Postby Colin on Tue 6/Jul/04 5:09pm

A huge natural talent and very determnied.

Mortgaged his house and in debt up to his eyeballs to get his start in racing.

At one race telemetry off his car showed him momentarily being on full opposite lock re-acting to what the car was doing, but our Nige denied that he was. Just a seat of the pants driver who did what he felt was required rather than say Prost approach (or Schummies) of thinking about what is going on. Nige was never very good at telling his engineers what he needed doing to the car.

He was good - but his success was I believe born of the supeior engineering and electronic that Williams had at that time.
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Postby Henry Dorset Case on Tue 6/Jul/04 6:01pm

Ummmm WRC cars are to showroom cars as the factory Superbikes were to the bike you can buy from your dealer.....

Motorcycle racing is the most exciting for me because I can see the guys doing it, and can (sort of) relate because I ride a motorbike myself.

WRC gets my respect because they drive them on actual roads, and they are more closely based on something you can buy than any other form of motorsport I am aware of.

As for Mansell, who could take a man with that moustache seriously....I mean, come on.

If Michael grows a moustache he would be such a dreamboat....
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Postby Datsane on Tue 6/Jul/04 6:36pm

F1 is just a short way of "Ferrari 1st" at the moment its just plain sad to watch. weld on a frame alla stock car and tell them to go nuts, that would be good to watch.

The V8 brutes would be the best Bang for the bucks at the moment lots of crashes, but that too gets boring after awhile cause u want to watch more than 2 laps without a pace car.

V8 Supercars Hmmm V8.
"Go Ambrose"
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Postby Dougal on Tue 6/Jul/04 6:45pm

PedalOn wrote:
old women drive wrc cars


You are an idiot.
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Postby wachtourak on Tue 6/Jul/04 7:07pm

I like to watch the V8 supercars, I see on the website there was something illegal with Ambrose's car, and he's been stripped of his points for the round, and been fined $10000. His team say 'It was nothing that increased performance) but that's not the point, he broke the rules he should pay the price. It was like Murphy at Bathurst a couple of years back, yeah it wasn't his fault, but rules are rules. I'll be hella pissed if they appeal it and he wins. Bit of a bugger that Murph got caught up in that incident on the first corner, innocent bystander and all, but that's racing.

But my favourite motorsport is still speedway, nothing beats 500HP 1500kg stockcars putting each other up the wall, or 800HP Sprintcars doing 13 sec laps of a 1/4 mile oval. And can't forget the Super Saloons, a 20+ car field of those is awesome, they race 3 wide round the corners at Baypark.
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Postby Spacemonkey on Tue 6/Jul/04 7:44pm

Dougal wrote:
PedalOn wrote:
old women drive wrc cars


You are an idiot.


BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol:
Oh the beautiful irony of it! :D :baaa: :baaa:

I still say for a mere car race if you want to see something where there is actual competition and not just results being the same old same old. :sleeping: then watch the european touring cars. :thumbsup:
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Postby jeremyb on Tue 6/Jul/04 7:55pm

Basically, any high level motorsport is awesome, just choose what lights your wick, after going to Bathurst and living the V8 dream I can say it is amazing being there, walking in the pits, having the cars cruise past you to head out onto the track, the throbbing roar, the BA falcon I had got a fair caning :lol:

My second love is german touring cars, the Mercs are sooo phat, third would be Porsche GT Cup.
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Postby mudguard on Tue 6/Jul/04 9:29pm

What moustache? Ha ha work told me to get a photo of Nigel while he was staying and losing money to our pro, so this is the photo I had taken. My boss was not very pleased.
0122_0000.jpg
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Postby LongDrop on Wed 7/Jul/04 9:21am

I always liked the CART Champ Car series. It's proof that if you write the rules differently then mega fast open wheelers can still pass each other on the track and unlike IRL it's not just all going around in circles on big speedways (though there are some in it). It's a shame it doesn't get televised any more. It was always tons more fun to watch than F1 or IRL.
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Postby thorg on Wed 7/Jul/04 9:28am

PedalOn wrote:A bit to answer there Thorg


I watch more than just the moving pictures on my screen (or on the track in front of me for Melbourne :) )-
Totally, I caught the final 2 years of F1 in Adelaide, live it rules, but that goes for just about any motor sport.
I've tried to like IRL but for me it is too much of a lottery
Yea, but aint Scott cool? NZ out there doing it?

I agree that there is not enough close racing in F1 -

Pretty much my only point, and the view seems to be shared by a lot of people. F1 are loosing fans because of it. A few rule changes to spice it up again and I might start watching again myself ;)

The difference between V8 Supercars and Supermarket cars referred to in a previous post is similar to the difference between Leob's Xsara and that one driven by a grey haired person past my office just now.

To true. boy racers in their STi's, evo's etc wouldnt last the first stage of a real rally, driver as much as car, and even then teh cars a WAY different.

The title of the tread is that Mansell says F1 Sucks. That is Mansell's opinion, not a fact and certalnly not my opinion.

Good to get a response from someone keen and with valid opinion. Yes, if you get into the "spirit" of the sport and are watching more than merely "the race" it could be exciting, I guess, though not for me anymore :(

This weekend I'll be crawling around in the mud beneath a group N car in Rotorua.

MMMMmmmmmmmmm Av Gas in the evening :D

* I hope this isn't a flaming - just my point of view about a sport I follow with interest *
No, not flaming, just good comment. at least it wasnt a "F1 rlz f@git!" sort of response that happens on teh "other" site :p
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Postby Vinnie on Wed 7/Jul/04 11:50am

F1 has completely lost its appeal to me.

WRC and IRL and V8's and NASCAR are my favs. But my fav of all time - the British touring car champs no longer airs on sky so I can't watch it :(

To the person who said IRL is a lottery, thats how its designed to be. The cars are so equal in engine power and chasis design that it really comes down to the driver rather than the car these days. It and Nascar are probably some of the more exciting (wheel to wheel passing & race action) that you get in motorsports today on NZ tv.
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Postby Henry Dorset Case on Wed 7/Jul/04 11:58am

I also love the crashes in NASCAR (I know I shouldnt but I just do, OK)
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