Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby jo on Wed 2/Dec/09 1:21am

Agree that wealth and poverty are relative.
IMHO, the gap between rich and poor is far far greater in australia than nz. The rich are far far richer. The poor far poorer. And poor is indeed shit. Its just generally warmer and drier to sleep on the street in oz.
I dont think that makes it a better society.
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby michael on Wed 2/Dec/09 1:30am

Two things to say on this.

1: Don Brash's proposals are just more of the same of what went on (and possibly caused?) when the wage gap opened up with Australia in the first place.

2: What would be the material benefit or effect (eg actual quality of life, not GDP as proxy for quality of life) for someone on median income if A: the policies actually succeeded and closed the gap, or B (far more likely) tried but failed to close the wage gap?


To me the proposals seem like shuffling numbers in order to maximize an important sounding measurement.
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby Fraser on Wed 2/Dec/09 1:35am

The government run dope would be a good idea, I found that the stuff in the USA (states where you can cultivate it legally) and Holland. The quality is very good. It would work well for the tourism side of things as well. It is a bit like brewing your own beer/spirits or knowing a mate who does. But it is nicer to have a decent quality beer in a bar ;)

They did it with Sauvingnon Blanc
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby bigJIMMY on Wed 2/Dec/09 7:18am

t'was great listening to Phil Goff the other day on the radio having a rant about all this.

first sentence blaming national and Brash for creating the wage gap.

when asked about the difference between the NZ and Aus economy and if it was even realistic to compare the two. he pretty much said that you can't compare them because of such a difference in population and industry.
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby phunk on Wed 2/Dec/09 9:13am

NZ has the standard of living that it deserves given the general feeling towards improving it..
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby iodi on Wed 2/Dec/09 9:22am

phunk wrote:NZ has the standard of living that it deserves given the general feeling towards improving it..

Agreed.
mediocrity.gif
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby philstar on Wed 2/Dec/09 11:42am

Nick_K wrote:Lose student loans? Do you mean make tertiary education free or lose the interest free component? Either way I disagree.


it seam silly to me to have the extra bureaucracy of loans when there is no incentive to pay them back quickly. I think loans with interest equivalent to OCR is a good system, or cut the crap and have a student allowance.

Nick_K wrote:Completely agree on the capital gains tax on second etc properties though. It needs to go further than this though and also include capital gains on shares and other investments to widen the taxable base and level the playing field for wage earners those who live off investments.


having arbitrary definitions like "second home" is to open to fiddles much better to have flat CGT on all property, if you have to do something then no capital gains if you only own one house, less open to shifting which one is your primary/family home.
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby Nick_K on Wed 2/Dec/09 12:21pm

philstar wrote:[
Nick_K wrote:Completely agree on the capital gains tax on second etc properties though. It needs to go further than this though and also include capital gains on shares and other investments to widen the taxable base and level the playing field for wage earners those who live off investments.


having arbitrary definitions like "second home" is to open to fiddles much better to have flat CGT on all property, if you have to do something then no capital gains if you only own one house, less open to shifting which one is your primary/family home.


You have to have some degree of political realism in decisions on taxation. Any party that proposed a CGT on peoples peersonal home will never win an election. Even a CGT on investment properties would be a hard sell given our love of property.
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby jo on Wed 2/Dec/09 12:35pm

Australia has stamp duty on property. If you want to be like australia maybe that'd be a good place to start. Cos if australia has it it must be good. :rolleyes:

Nothing puts you off buying something more than having to pay $14k to the government first. :crazy:
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby ThingOne on Wed 2/Dec/09 12:41pm

jo wrote:Australia has stamp duty on property. If you want to be like australia maybe that'd be a good place to start. Cos if australia has it it must be good. :rolleyes:

Nothing puts you off buying something more than having to pay $14k to the government first. :crazy:



But dont they give you a $5K first home buyers grant , oh the madness :D

Stamp duty on house sales sucks balls, I dont want any stamps thanks.
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby phunk on Wed 2/Dec/09 12:49pm

Plus CGT has no effect on property booms anyway.
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby jo on Wed 2/Dec/09 12:53pm

ThingOne wrote:
jo wrote:Australia has stamp duty on property. If you want to be like australia maybe that'd be a good place to start. Cos if australia has it it must be good. :rolleyes:

Nothing puts you off buying something more than having to pay $14k to the government first. :crazy:



But dont they give you a $5K first home buyers grant , oh the madness :D

Oh yes! Free $$, to give to the govt. :huh:
It's being phased out BTW.
jo
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby Nick_K on Wed 2/Dec/09 12:53pm

Any proof to back that up Phunk?

Goes against common sense that it shouldn't.
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby phunk on Wed 2/Dec/09 1:47pm

Nick_K wrote:Any proof to back that up Phunk?

Goes against common sense that it shouldn't.


Other than that there was property booms in pretty much every country with a CGT on property? Not really.

Property booms have their roots in monetary policy, the differential tax treatment of different forms of investment is only an incidental factor really, and why move to more tax, why not remove the silly taxes on other investments instead?
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Re: Lies Damn Lies And Australian Gdp

Postby Nick_K on Wed 2/Dec/09 1:56pm

phunk wrote:..and why move to more tax, why not remove the silly taxes on other investments instead?


Because we are currently, and are forcast to for many years, running big deficiets? Reducing taxs either means reducing services or running bigger deficiets for longer. Personally I find the 1st option unacceptable.

phunk wrote:the differential tax treatment of different forms of investment is only an incidental factor really


I'd disagree with this. The differential taxation of income leads to people investing in what is the most tax efficient investment. This leads to pricing bubbles. My understanding is that while most countries experienced property value bubbles NZ's was significantly worse at least partially due to our lack of CGT.
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