Will they leave and should they leave?

I think they should leave
7
24%
I think they should remain
19
66%
I think they will vote to leave
10
34%
I think they will vote to remain
10
34%
 
Total voters : 29

Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby Wobbler on Mon 27/Jun/16 7:58am

We should probably stop brownies voting also, oh and dumb people, maybe anyone without a job over a certain payrate.

Democracy is all cool until you get a result you dont want :rolleyes:
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby dwgknz on Mon 27/Jun/16 8:32am

Wobbler wrote:Democracy is all cool until you get a result you dont want :rolleyes:


:withstupid: This. People just don't get democracy sometimes, like when JK won the election on a platform of asset sales and then the Greens cried that there should be a referendum because winning an election somehow didn't equate to having a mandate to lead....

Referendum was held and Leave won. Time to start looking forward and making the most of this interesting opportunity. Things I've read since Friday (sadly from a number of my 'friends':

- Cameron won cause he checkmated Boris into a poison chalice
- Petition for 2nd referendum
- Cameron doesn't have to act on result as not binding
- Only old and poor people voted leave so shouldn't count
- Scotland may veto enactment of Article 50 (very real)
- Scotland will seceed
- Ireland will unite
- Petition to rehold England v Iceland if England loses tomorrow
- The world will end

It's really sad how many poor losers there are about this. One or two seem to be genuinely upset about the impact this will have on the economy and relationships withEurope but more seem just to be pissed off the places they'd like to live list has been restricted.

No one can say how things will look in two years but noes the time to start working together to ensures it succeeds.
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby happybaboon on Mon 27/Jun/16 9:37am

It's more complex than that.

I.e. if you're a 1930s German who elected Hitler and waved his flags around you can't claim "But he ran on a platform of fixing the economy". People were well within their rights to protest asset sales. Being elected is not a "mandate" to do anything; they govern at the pleasure of the people (in theory). The people are still allowed to have their say on things.
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby dwgknz on Mon 27/Jun/16 12:00pm

No, the mandate to lead is a key concept of democracy. In a election we select a representative (or representatives) who we give a mandate to lead. We then expect them to deliver on the policies they campaigned on. The election is the peoples say on things.

Scrutiny is important part of the process, especially when new policies are introduced after an election or when existing policies are twisted ie. when fixing the economy becomes Lebensraum.....

In this case though demanding a 2nd referendum is ridiculous, it's like a kid who demands a rematch cause they weren't ready yet.
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby Sims on Mon 27/Jun/16 12:14pm

dwgknz wrote:In this case though demanding a 2nd referendum is ridiculous, it's like a kid who demands a rematch cause they weren't ready yet.


The difference is whether the referendum itself was the catalyst to finally getting some decent public discourse/understanding on the matter. Given the number of people googling what brexit was, post voting... I'd wager the vote would swing back to remain, if they started over.
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby Wobbler on Mon 27/Jun/16 12:24pm

You dont get a do-over because some of your population didn't google what it was about before hand.
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby Barbsarama on Mon 27/Jun/16 12:45pm

Wobbler wrote:We should probably stop brownies voting also, oh and dumb people, maybe anyone without a job over a certain payrate.

Democracy is all cool until you get a result you dont want :rolleyes:


Should you be able to vote on whether I get a piano if you are living next door to me and you are moving out in 3 months, leaving your grown children in the house, and the piano will be delivered in 4 months? Or should the grown children vote instead seeing as it will affect them and not you?
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby jo on Mon 27/Jun/16 1:22pm

I'm somewhat removed from this whole saga.

But my UK trip for my sisters wedding just got 10% cheaper. :paranoid:
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby happybaboon on Mon 27/Jun/16 1:29pm

dwgknz wrote:No, the mandate to lead is a key concept of democracy. In a election we select a representative (or representatives) who we give a mandate to lead. We then expect them to deliver on the policies they campaigned on. The election is the peoples say on things.

Scrutiny is important part of the process, especially when new policies are introduced after an election or when existing policies are twisted ie. when fixing the economy becomes Lebensraum.....

In this case though demanding a 2nd referendum is ridiculous, it's like a kid who demands a rematch cause they weren't ready yet.

I agree that in this instance those wanting a second go is insane.

The asset sales referendum was important because...
1) not binding, it was essentially an expensive protest.
2) refuted Key's claim that electoral victory (despite not getting a majority of the votes and needing to kiddy-fiddle democracy in order to win in Epsom and Ohariu) was a direct claim by the people that they wanted the assets sold.
3) Key is a twat.
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby Wobbler on Mon 27/Jun/16 1:32pm

Barbsarama wrote:
Wobbler wrote:We should probably stop brownies voting also, oh and dumb people, maybe anyone without a job over a certain payrate.

Democracy is all cool until you get a result you dont want :rolleyes:


Should you be able to vote on whether I get a piano if you are living next door to me and you are moving out in 3 months, leaving your grown children in the house, and the piano will be delivered in 4 months? Or should the grown children vote instead seeing as it will affect them and not you?

Lol solid argument there. Are terminally ill people allowed to vote under your fantasy scenario?
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby Bigfoot on Mon 27/Jun/16 3:30pm

Wobbler wrote:You dont get a do-over because some of your population didn't google what it was about before hand.



Been going round again, and Super Hans is correct as always :huh:
Image
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby Barbsarama on Mon 27/Jun/16 4:00pm

Wobbler wrote:
Barbsarama wrote:
Wobbler wrote:We should probably stop brownies voting also, oh and dumb people, maybe anyone without a job over a certain payrate.

Democracy is all cool until you get a result you dont want :rolleyes:


Should you be able to vote on whether I get a piano if you are living next door to me and you are moving out in 3 months, leaving your grown children in the house, and the piano will be delivered in 4 months? Or should the grown children vote instead seeing as it will affect them and not you?

Lol solid argument there. Are terminally ill people allowed to vote under your fantasy scenario?


:D it is a great analogy right?
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Member for: 8 years 3 months

Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby philstar on Mon 27/Jun/16 9:07pm

Wobbler wrote:
Democracy is all cool until you get a result you dont want :rolleyes:


electoral competition (on its own) does not make democracy.
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby dwgknz on Tue 28/Jun/16 8:59am

Apparently there is no room for England in Europe.

#Brexit2.0
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Re: Leave Or Remain

Postby Velocipedestrian on Tue 28/Jun/16 9:08am

Iceland just put the boot in, classic.
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