Mickyfinn wrote:court say no .....

The court did not say no.

The prosecutors said they were dropping the prosecution, but did not give any reason.
The prosecution was not for doping anyway. It was for fraud, one of the hardest things to prove in court.

happybaboon wrote:Evidence says no.

What evidence?

mickeyfinn wrote:court says no.

What court?

Fanbois will always think he did no wrong while the sceptics will always think he is a drugs cheat and "ethically challenged" over the whole Livestong.org/.com issue.

It's all a bit pointless really.

As has been pointed out he has not been "cleared", the case has simply been dropped (for whatever reason).

Simonius_Titius wrote:

Mickyfinn wrote:court say no .....

The court did not say no.

The prosecutors said they were dropping the prosecution, but did not give any reason.
The prosecution was not for doping anyway. It was for fraud, one of the hardest things to prove in court.

Also remember that there are 2 different levels of proof, to bring charges: is it more likely that Lance lied about doping than not, to succesfully prosecute: is it beyond reasonable doubt. So its more likely than not that Lillywhite Lance is a dirty liar.

That's interesting about the balance of probabilities needing to be exceeded to bring charges, is it the same in NZ and do civil cases need the same level to proceed?

Simonius_Titius wrote:That's interesting about the balance of probabilities needing to be exceeded to bring charges, is it the same in NZ and do civil cases need the same level to proceed?

In theory yes, in practice not always. Case in point: the Tamaki drive car door guy.

bugle wrote:Lance what? Yawn

Yeah, did he ever wear a crown and a gold lame jacket on the podium?

Percy Pig wrote:

bugle wrote:Lance what? Yawn

Yeah, did he ever wear a crown and a gold lame jacket on the podium?

speaking of drugs (but not really performance enhancing)

CrustyMTB wrote:

Percy Pig wrote:

bugle wrote:Lance what? Yawn

Yeah, did he ever wear a crown and a gold lame jacket on the podium?

speaking of drugs (but not really performance enhancing)

Depends on what sort of performance we're talking aboot eh?

Gavatron wrote:As has been pointed out he has not been "cleared", the case has simply been dropped (for whatever reason).

Innocent until proven guilty. And they've had a shit-tonne of goes at trying to pin something on him, and failed every time. Time for the haters to STFU and accept he's clean, I say.

happybaboon wrote:Time for the haters to STFU and accept he's clean, I say.

I don't think that follows, actually. They might have to accept the decision to not prosecute, but that's a loooong way from having to accept that he was clean.

happybaboon wrote:

Gavatron wrote:As has been pointed out he has not been "cleared", the case has simply been dropped (for whatever reason).

Innocent until proven guilty. And they've had a shit-tonne of goes at trying to pin something on him, and failed every time. Time for the haters to STFU and accept he's clean, I say.

Time for the Fanbois to accept that he raced doped to the eyeballs but was smart enough to avoid being prosecuted for it?

Trail wrote:

happybaboon wrote:

Gavatron wrote:As has been pointed out he has not been "cleared", the case has simply been dropped (for whatever reason).

Innocent until proven guilty. And they've had a shit-tonne of goes at trying to pin something on him, and failed every time. Time for the haters to STFU and accept he's clean, I say.

Time for the Fanbois to accept that he raced doped to the eyeballs but was smart enough to avoid being prosecuted for it?

Or, how about we all accept that we believe what we choose to believe, we're not going to change anyone else's views and, anyway, our personal views don't make a jot of difference to the reality of the whole situation?

Oli wrote:Or, how about we all accept that we believe what we choose to believe, we're not going to change anyone else's views and, anyway, our personal views don't make a jot of difference to the reality of the whole situation?

That's what I was trying to say Oli.

Gavatron wrote:It's all a bit pointless really.

The fanbois think he can do no wrong. Others of us think the guy did little right and worse, traded on his ill-gotten success, while as many think, he is a drugs cheat.

But we're never going to convince each other so let's just put LA to one side and move on.

That said I nealry vomited when I read this:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/11068/Interview-UCI-reacts-to-investigators-dropping-ArmstrongUS-Postal-Service-case.aspx

FFS, these people are in charge of the sport we love!

happybaboon wrote:

Gavatron wrote:As has been pointed out he has not been "cleared", the case has simply been dropped (for whatever reason).

Innocent until proven guilty. And they've had a shit-tonne of goes at trying to pin something on him, and failed every time. Time for the haters to STFU and accept he's clean, I say.

Got to love manichean world views, either black or white. Grey??!? I see no grey!!

CrustyMTB wrote:

happybaboon wrote:

Gavatron wrote:As has been pointed out he has not been "cleared", the case has simply been dropped (for whatever reason).

Innocent until proven guilty. And they've had a shit-tonne of goes at trying to pin something on him, and failed every time. Time for the haters to STFU and accept he's clean, I say.

Got to love manichean world views, either black or white. Grey??!? I see no grey!!

He probably thinks it was Robin Bain too