Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby bigJIMMY on Wed 10/Jun/09 7:02am

I can't understand how companies that make a loss on pretty much all their funds, still take management fees and pay their staff. they are loosing peoples money at extraordinary speed, and most people are oblivious to it.......



here is some of ING's awesome stats;

Funds as at 30 April 2009
1 Year

ING Balanced Fund -11.21
ING Equity Selection Fund -17.67
ING International Share Fund -12.06
ING New Zealand Share Fund -24.04
ING Australian Share Fund -18.78
ING Property Securities Fund -29.73
ING Diversified Yield Fund -67.47
ING Regular Income Fund -67.30
ING Secure Income Fund 3.80
Enhanced Yield Fund -4.96
Credit Opportunities Fund -61.16
MFL Property Fund -37.36
SIL Balanced Fund -13.01
SIL Capital Stable Fund 3.94
SIL Cash Fund 6.15
SIL International Share Fund -14.23
SIL New Zealand Share Fund -20.46
SIL Pacific Basin Share Fund -21.90

how about GMK, http://www.kiwisaver.com/pages/content.aspx?PID=68

or everyones friend mike pero http://www.mikepero.co.nz/index.cfm/3,4 ... may-09.pdf



keen to hear peoples thoughts.

are you in kiwisaver? have you lost out so far?
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby ThingOne on Wed 10/Jun/09 7:27am

<RANT>
The managed funds industry in NZ is seriously f*&cked has pretty much always been, althought somewhat better than the early nineties where insurance companies would take you first 2 years of investment contributions and give them to the "agent" who sold you the investment, then continue to give them a good percentage of your contributions on an ongoing basis.
The fees and complex structures designed to hide other layers of fees are mind boggling.

Even things like cash funds during the good times would return 2-3%, I just cant understand why anyone would invest in them when a Bank Term deposit would give you 8%
Quite often these investments are funds of funds, with hundreds of people clipping the ticket,

As for Kiwisaver, im not in yet, keep meaning too just to get the free $1k per year, and will choose the most transparent fund, most probably Gareth Morgan as you need to be able to see just EXACTLY where your money is and what its invested in.
</RANT>
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby slowMTB on Wed 10/Jun/09 7:32am

Nothing yet, I keep burying money in the back yard but no foliage yet :(
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby slidecontrol on Wed 10/Jun/09 8:37am

once again the sandwich heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor!
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby bugle on Wed 10/Jun/09 8:43am

Cant recall what fund I ended up in (one of the big insurance company offerings from memory) but I certainly have no complaint about the amount of $ when I sighted the last statement

Aus superanuation thats been locked away for Kiwi's till now is available for transfer to NZ in October
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby ThingOne on Wed 10/Jun/09 8:48am

bugle wrote:Cant recall what fund I ended up in (one of the big insurance company offerings from memory) but I certainly have no complaint about the amount of $ when I sighted the last statement

Aus superanuation thats been locked away for Kiwi's till now is available for transfer to NZ in October


I would avoid anything from the large insurance companies like the plague, they are designed to make the insurance company money, not you.

If theres one thing people should learn out of the current financial crisis is the word TRANSPARENCY.
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby Trail on Wed 10/Jun/09 8:52am

bugle wrote:Cant recall what fund I ended up in (one of the big insurance company offerings from memory) but I certainly have no complaint about the amount of $ when I sighted the last statement

Aus superanuation thats been locked away for Kiwi's till now is available for transfer to NZ in October


Transfer as in cash in hand, or transfer to nominated Kiwi saver fund?? Just curious. I have a year or 2 worth of funds sitting there and it would be nice to have it over here.

My current fund was -8.7% to march 31st before fees, tax and expenses... but it is still increasing. The thought that if I had been simply putting that money into a high interest bank account myself that it would have been earning more is pretty annoying, but I dont think the 8.7% loss will have taken out the gain of the extra grand or so each year so it probably still works out to be in my favor at the moment.

Is there anyone in a fund that actually made money??
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby Tama on Wed 10/Jun/09 8:56am

Funny, you should bring this up - out of curiousity I tried to log into my Kiwisaver (Mercer/ Kiwibank) the other day to check how things were doing and got bored/ gave up before I could get access to my details.

Should probably try a bit harder.
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby crazychris on Wed 10/Jun/09 8:58am

I think, from memory, last time I got a statement on my kiwisaver, I had only lost 20% of my investment.

that's good right?
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby iodi on Wed 10/Jun/09 8:58am

Yes, in the sense that my Kiwisaver account is worth quite a bit more than it would have been if I wasn't investing via Kiwisaver*. That 's because I would have been investing the same money in the same things anyway, but with Kiwisaver I got $1000 kickstart, $1040pa "tax rebate" (which has nothing to do with tax), $40 fee rebate, and tax-free income via salary sacrifice.

So thanks to all the taxpayers who very generously gave me free money for doing what I was going to do anyway.




* Though "no" in the sense of the whole global financial meltdown/recession thing. But that isn't the point - my investments would have lost money anyway; with Kiwisaver they lost less than they otherwise would have.
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby pb on Wed 10/Jun/09 8:59am

Trail wrote:Is there anyone in a fund that actually made money??

ING Secure Income Fund 3.80
SIL Capital Stable Fund 3.94
SIL Cash Fund 6.15
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby Trail on Wed 10/Jun/09 9:03am

Tama wrote:Funny, you should bring this up - out of curiousity I tried to log into my Kiwisaver (Mercer/ Kiwibank) the other day to check how things were doing and got bored/ gave up before I could get access to my details.

Should probably try a bit harder.


I just found some graphs on Gareth Morgans site. You probably should try harder ;)
20080930_growth.gif
20080930_balanced.gif
20080930_conservative.gif
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby ThingOne on Wed 10/Jun/09 9:04am

Tama wrote:Funny, you should bring this up - out of curiousity I tried to log into my Kiwisaver (Mercer/ Kiwibank) the other day to check how things were doing and got bored/ gave up before I could get access to my details.

Should probably try a bit harder.


Investor apathy, Investment companies love clients like that.
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby Trail on Wed 10/Jun/09 9:07am

also from G. Morgan

Naturally we’re pleased with our relative performance – we score well for all three products (conservative, balanced, growth). In fact, if you take out the one trick ponies (those with only one product, normally a growth fund) we’re second or third for each product. But we cannot over-emphasise the reality that this is a long term game – leading into the first corner of a marathon is not necessarily a good guide to where you’ll come at the end of the race. We’re not getting carried away.

One thing that stands out straight away is that some providers appear to have only one option for KiwiSavers and we suspect that offering is often dangerously concentrated – small cap New Zealand stocks for instance. And Fisher Funds aren’t the only one with this problem, but their results so far highlight the risks involved.

Another point that emerges from the data is that the traditional fund managers are closely bunched in terms of returns reflecting the formulaic approach they take to funds management. As you would expect the more active managers have a far wider variance of returns - Brook Asset Management versus Fisher Funds for instance.
growth (1).jpg
balanced.jpg
conservative.jpg
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Re: Kiwisaver; Is Your Money Growing?

Postby Trail on Wed 10/Jun/09 9:15am

Hmmm my provider (Supereasy) come out tops on the low fees calculator for my investments tho... which is a good start.

http://www.kiwisaver.com/calculators/providerfees.aspx
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