Simonius_Titius wrote:

happybaboon wrote: ... STFU and fuck off until such time as he also calls for an increase to taxation on him and his wealthy buddies.

Do you know how the tax rates have changed over the period when higher fees were introduced?

Back when education was pretty much free the top tax rate was 66%. $1 for the worker, $2 to the government, and it didn't stop after you had paid some fixed amount.

Tax rates are pretty flat now but back then they were much more progressive, so adding to your earning power via education meant you would pay a higher rate of tax. At a wild guess it would have been normal for graduates to pay tax at a marginal rate of 50%.

Sure there was an anomaly for a few years for people who got a free education shortly before the tax cuts and didn't get to pay for it through higher taxes.
That sort of thing is normal when violent changes are made in or occur to an economy - some get unfairly shafted, some get unearned riches. Neither constitutes an excuse for others to reneg on their freely entered contract and steal from taxpayers.

There were plenty of losers from the economic changes of which student loans were a small part, so why not compare yourself to them?

I find it hard to believe that most of the loan defaulters have enough understanding of the big picture to even start making an assessment of fairness, and in any case it is unwise to try - we always see good reasons for beliefs which will benefit us personally.
Pay your electricity bill, pay your education bill.

He's not targeting defaulters. For the most part he's targeting people who are already meeting their obligation. And oh great, the people who got a free education then went on to substantially reduce tax rates on themselves. Well, in that case, carry on then

Here's an interesting blog on the subject, and an interesting response from Paul Callaghan:

http://www.absolutegeni.us/archives/508

I was University in the 1970s, when I received a bursary, which was just about enough to live on, plus working a series of mostly shit jobs over Summer breaks to earn enough. Not dissimilar to Paul Callaghan. I don't remember the history of taxation rates (and find it astonishing that anyone interesting enough to be on Vorb does) but would point out that a marginal taxation rate of 66% is not the same as a taxation rate of 66%. All I really remember, without doing any actual research on the topic, was that we had it pretty easy actually and came out of our degrees to pretty plentiful work and usually no debt. OE was something a lot of people did, but not something they had to do to - and I never did.

It's not the case that everyone from my generation ended up creaming it: partly because we didn't have loan repayment pressure some of us went into work that we wanted to do, rather than work that paid well; and some people (like an engineer I know) went into work that was undervalued. So not all of the boomers are in a position to make voluntary increased contributions to the consolidated fund, but many certainly are. And the case for them to do so is at least as strong (and I think actually stronger) than the case for people with student loans to pay them off quicker than they need to.

happybaboon wrote:

Simonius_Titius wrote:

happybaboon wrote: ... STFU and fuck off until such time as he also calls for an increase to taxation on him and his wealthy buddies.

Do you know how the tax rates have changed over the period when higher fees were introduced?

Back when education was pretty much free the top tax rate was 66%. $1 for the worker, $2 to the government, and it didn't stop after you had paid some fixed amount.

Tax rates are pretty flat now but back then they were much more progressive, so adding to your earning power via education meant you would pay a higher rate of tax. At a wild guess it would have been normal for graduates to pay tax at a marginal rate of 50%.

Sure there was an anomaly for a few years for people who got a free education shortly before the tax cuts and didn't get to pay for it through higher taxes.
That sort of thing is normal when violent changes are made in or occur to an economy - some get unfairly shafted, some get unearned riches. Neither constitutes an excuse for others to reneg on their freely entered contract and steal from taxpayers.

There were plenty of losers from the economic changes of which student loans were a small part, so why not compare yourself to them?

I find it hard to believe that most of the loan defaulters have enough understanding of the big picture to even start making an assessment of fairness, and in any case it is unwise to try - we always see good reasons for beliefs which will benefit us personally.
Pay your electricity bill, pay your education bill.

He's not targeting defaulters. For the most part he's targeting people who are already meeting their obligation. And oh great, the people who got a free education then went on to substantially reduce tax rates on themselves. Well, in that case, carry on then

your indignation is palpable babs
fair enough.
I would however point out a couple of facts
1 he's targetting overseas student debtors as external cash injection would be more helpful. he isnt targetting those living in NZ meeting their repayments. hos letter was addressed to OVERSEAS . . .
2 The blanket statement that those who got a free education went on to reduce tax rates on themselves simply isn't true. There was no referendum. There was a series of governmental decisions. The voting populace voted for a government based on many different policies, not the single issue of student loans.
I suspect that being middle class liberal and being against a student fees and a student loans scheme, is far more likely in those who have been to university than those who didn't go. It was all voters that allowed it to happen and I think that Paul Callahan and his like are the most likely group to actually oppose a fees and loan scheme ratherv than being specifically "the people who got a free education then went on to substantially reduce tax rates on themselves"

FYI - yes I did have a student loan

They spend the loans on drugs and booze anyway.

I think it was an outrage he chopped down the flag pole.

Spokes wrote:They spend the loans on drugs and booze anyway.

dont forget gamblin' and whorin'

Drugs, booze, gambling AND whoring? I can afford three of those on my student allowance, tops.

In my day we used the whoring to PAY for the drugs, booze and gambling...

Yeah but I don't want to end up having to wear nappies because my 'nusser can't hold the poop in.

happybaboon wrote:Drugs, booze, gambling AND whoring? I can afford three of those on my student allowance, tops.

get a job then

I worked and paid my loan off each year. I fully acknowledge that my university study was quite stoic and uninteresting, because I was working when my mates were at the pub.

I think the baby boomer arguement is right, and I also think the paying back the loan arguement is right. They are not intertwined really. The 'old people' have the greatest ability to pay donations. The students with loans have an obligation to pay their loans back.

Keeping loans interest free when people aren't repaying them is what costs NZ in economic terms, and as long as people do not pay them correctly, then that just sucks money out of our economy in the form of interst on govt debt, which achieves nothing for us as a country, it's dead money. Interest farkin blows, but it is the nature of the beast.

I guess my feelings are do keep meeting the obligations you signed up to, at the minimum. I think the feeling is that the overseas students just ignore the loan, and that costs all of us back here in the long run. I agree that students have the least ability to do something extra, so by keeping up with their obligations, they're at least minimising the harm.

As for 'poor me and my student loan' types my attitude is you took the loan (s) with open eyes, so don't whine and pay it back like you're supposed to. No-one makes you study, if you want to study, pay your fees, in cash or by loan. It's called being an adult.

This from a user who's surname is "Millionaire"...

Wobbler wrote:

Percy Pig wrote:

Wobbler wrote:Fuck paying my loan back any faster than I have to, anyone who thinks otherwise can go fuck themselves

Gimme bak mi tax dollarse beatch!

eat my bum

Let me think now no.



Bloody students, mutter mutter..............

So if you are overseas it says that the government is scraping the barrel asking non residents to pay back the loans you gave them. Earthquake or not

It's not the Government asking.