Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby happybaboon on Sat 15/Sep/12 9:19am

cauld wrote:b) This shit is gonna have the Green party turning freaking summersaults. A tolled cycle way organized by evil private equity firm... Magic!

I think you very much misunderstand the Green party. They don't got no problem with private enterprise doing good things. All they're (likely) to complain about is how the Govt/council didn't do it as a public good, and then congratulate industry for making it happening anyway.
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby cauld on Sat 15/Sep/12 9:24am

happybaboon wrote:
cauld wrote:b) This shit is gonna have the Green party turning freaking summersaults. A tolled cycle way organized by evil private equity firm... Magic!

I think you very much misunderstand the Green party. They don't got no problem with private enterprise doing good things. All they're (likely) to complain about is how the Govt/council didn't do it as a public good, and then congratulate industry for making it happening anyway.


Sorry. I was referring to the New Zealand Green Party there....

"Green Party transport spokesperson Julie-Anne Genter says when such arrangements have been used for roading projects overseas, they have not gone well."


“Experience overseas suggests that however you set up a PPP, the public ends up funding the project while the private partner creams profit off the top. "
“In the absence of any significant savings, the only explanation for going down the PPP route is that the Government wants to do a favour to big business,” Ms Delahunty said.

But, I certainly await their elated congratulations...
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby brian245 on Sat 15/Sep/12 9:54am

cauld wrote:
thelongwalk wrote:
brian245 wrote:
wpp1 wrote:Queuing won't be a problem for commuters as they are not in a big group, and at the time commuters are riding there won't be many other users like pedestrians. It will be the weekends that queues will happen. There will be an explosion in pedestrian numbers.


The New Plymouth coastal 'walkway' has proven that pedestrians and cyclists do not mix.
It may work where the pedestrians are disciplined enough ,but total caos here


I've only ridden it a few times and had no probs. You'll never please everybody all the time but the majority seem happy with sharing things in life. The whingers and those that always moan are just showing their true disposition. Small towns seem worse in my biased opinion.


New Plymouth is my home town and I've walked that walkway numerous times. Never had any bike conflict issues.


Maybe you are one of the disciplined walkers, but if you ride it everyday you will find that a lot are not
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Sat 15/Sep/12 10:19am

cauld wrote:
happybaboon wrote:
cauld wrote:b) This shit is gonna have the Green party turning freaking summersaults. A tolled cycle way organized by evil private equity firm... Magic!

I think you very much misunderstand the Green party. They don't got no problem with private enterprise doing good things. All they're (likely) to complain about is how the Govt/council didn't do it as a public good, and then congratulate industry for making it happening anyway.


Sorry. I was referring to the New Zealand Green Party there....

"Green Party transport spokesperson Julie-Anne Genter says when such arrangements have been used for roading projects overseas, they have not gone well."


“Experience overseas suggests that however you set up a PPP, the public ends up funding the project while the private partner creams profit off the top. "
“In the absence of any significant savings, the only explanation for going down the PPP route is that the Government wants to do a favour to big business,” Ms Delahunty said.

But, I certainly await their elated congratulations...


Way to be douchebag about this. :rolleyes:
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby FLATULENTFRIEND on Sat 15/Sep/12 11:15am

cauld wrote:
thelongwalk wrote:
brian245 wrote:
wpp1 wrote:Queuing won't be a problem for commuters as they are not in a big group, and at the time commuters are riding there won't be many other users like pedestrians. It will be the weekends that queues will happen. There will be an explosion in pedestrian numbers.


The New Plymouth coastal 'walkway' has proven that pedestrians and cyclists do not mix.
It may work where the pedestrians are disciplined enough ,but total caos here


I've only ridden it a few times and had no probs. You'll never please everybody all the time but the majority seem happy with sharing things in life. The whingers and those that always moan are just showing their true disposition. Small towns seem worse in my biased opinion.


New Plymouth is my home town and I've walked that walkway numerous times. Never had any bike conflict issues.




I've never noticed any real problems on the North Western cycle / walkway....except for that fat old guy with the big stick that he used to wave at me and swear at me when I'd be cycling to Unitec :crazy:
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby Kevin Hague on Sat 15/Sep/12 11:27am

Well it is mildly frustrating that NZTA and the Council between them have not come up with the funding for Get Across. However, my perspective (as someone who doesn't live in Auckland) is that investment in cycling infrastructure would probably get more gains in other projects, so provided they get funded instead I'm good with that.

I haven't spoken with Julie Anne about the new proposal (and she is an expert on transport planning, so her thoughts will be interesting) but it seems like a great idea to me. Like Mickey I remember paying for the Bridge as it is now with tolls, so there's a symmetry in funding its improvement the same way, though I'd want to see the detail before being sure that doing it as a PPP makes sense, rather than having the same funding mechanism just through the Council.

As for sharing paths between cyclists and pedestrians, the evidence is that it works fine with good visibility, relatively low volumes and a bit of common sense. internationally I can think of several similar situations (eg bridge from Bristol to Chepstow in the UK, Golden Gate Bridge) which seem to work well. Probably all of the mountainbikers reading this can think of a situation on a shared track where a walker has been startled by encountering a bike and done something daft, but as some may know, I analysed all of the available research about shared tracks during the years of campaigning for the Heaphy. Essentially the experience is collisions are rare, and that experience of using shared paths reduces fear and anxiety that people may have held about it.

Of course this research is mostly quantitative and tells us about the reactions of most people. There will always be individuals whose responses are different from this main effect, and Brian's experience of the New Plymouth coastal Pathway sounds like this. The fact that most users are comfortable with sharing on this pathway doesn't make Brian's experience wrong.

I think where Brian is wrong though is that he didn't mention that Catherine Dealahunty's criticism of PPPs was about their use for schools, rather than bike paths. Most people would probably see that difference as significant.
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby Crashed on Sat 15/Sep/12 12:32pm

Len brown think"s there will be 1000 people(500 return trips) using it a day that's $2000- a day so we will be paying the $2 toll for the next 32 years ,what's $2 going to buy you in 32 year's time ? More people are becoming enlightened to other forms of transport ,so by the time Auckland has two million people there will be a decent Public Transport system and road's will be built with cycle infrastructure with out us having to beg for it .As old traffic designers die off there repleacments will see cycling as viable transport and not as a green feel good thing to do ,all it will take is a little time ,Look how far we have come in the last 10 years :)
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby jo on Sat 15/Sep/12 12:37pm

Nice one KevinHague. :)
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby wpp1 on Sat 15/Sep/12 2:06pm

My feeling is that the weekend pedestrian numbers will be greater than the weekday cycle numbers, so I imagine the revenue from pedestrians will be needed to make the venture viable. Cyclists will be slow enough on the way up, but will have to watch their speed on the way down if there are a lot of pedestrians present. I havent seen any detail how wide it will be but if wide enough there should not be a problem.
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby Mickyfinn on Sat 15/Sep/12 3:31pm

what would be paying for? are they building a new bridge??
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby FLATULENTFRIEND on Sat 15/Sep/12 5:22pm

There'll need to be a white safety line down the middle - just like our national highway :)
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby Mickyfinn on Sat 15/Sep/12 5:26pm

Crashed wrote:Len brown think"s there will be 1000 people(500 return trips) using it a day that's $2000- a day so we will be paying the $2 toll for the next 32 years ,what's $2 going to buy you in 32 year's time ? More people are becoming enlightened to other forms of transport ,so by the time Auckland has two million people there will be a decent Public Transport system and road's will be built with cycle infrastructure with out us having to beg for it .As old traffic designers die off there repleacments will see cycling as viable transport and not as a green feel good thing to do ,all it will take is a little time ,Look how far we have come in the last 10 years :)



then you woke up
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby Simonius_Titius on Sat 15/Sep/12 10:35pm

Crashed wrote: More people are becoming enlightened to other forms of transport ...
...As old traffic designers die off their replacments will see cycling as viable transport...

Agree, ignorant old traffic designers are the problem. They just can't imagine a world where ordinary people ride for transport and not everyone needs a big polluting consumer status symbol. You can't blame these old guys for their lack of imagination, they have never known anything different. Some of them must be 60 years old! That means it was 1962 when they were 10. Just look at the graph.
The times they are a-changing, these old fossils should be purged to make way for new ideas. :satan:

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Last edited by Simonius_Titius on Fri 22/Feb/13 2:05am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby Crashed on Sun 16/Sep/12 2:16pm

Im awake MickyFinn are you? theres some of the thing that have happened over the last few years in Auckland ,Triangle rd, North western cycle way, South western cycle way, Takapuna to Devonport cycle lane .There's many more ,and a few new ones in the next year or two ,like joining the NW cycle lane to a new one that will take you down to the water front its going behind the uni .Harbour bridge.SW will join the NW. Down town to the Harbour bridge just to name a few .Open your eyes changes for the good of cycling ARE HAPPENING NOW. :)
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Re: Harbour Bridge - Tolled Cycle Way

Postby FLATULENTFRIEND on Sun 16/Sep/12 10:30pm

Also the green bike areas at the front of traffic at traffic lights. Cyclists don't use them much but hopefully it gets some drivers thinking that there are cyclists on the road too.
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