| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
DD-Rick
Worn
Joined: Jul 08, 2004
Posts: 575
Location: Chch
|
 Posted: Mon 6th Oct 12:23pm Post subject: Tennyson Street Cyclist Survey |
  |
|
In 2001, the Christchurch City Council reconstructed Tennyson Street between Colombo Street and the Heathcote River in Beckenham, including a new kind of cycling facility. The design uses off-road cycle paths between the footpath and the kerb, with a narrower roadway than previously for motor vehicles. The photo below shows the street layout.
ViaStrada, working on behalf of the Christchurch City Council, is keen to know what cyclists think of this facility design and whether or not this kind of facility should be repeated elsewhere in the city. To help improve Christchurch's cycling facilities, please complete a short questionnaire on the ViaStrada website http://viastrada.co.nz/tennyson-street. It should take you three minutes or less.
Please complete the survey by 22 October 2008 to go in the draw for a $50 voucher for Ground Effect gear or a year's membership of CAN, the Cycling Advocates' Network (value $30) plus a $30 donation to Spokes Canterbury. You'll need to supply your e-mail address to be included in the prize draw.
|
|
| Description: |
|
| Filesize: |
10.79 KB |
| Viewed: |
1094 Time(s) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
danose
Mangled
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 10,742
Location: Nose City
|
| Posted: Mon 6th Oct 12:31pm Post subject: |
|
|
yay - a chance for me to vent on how dratered and dangerous that design is!
actually breaches the LTSA guidelines from memory
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
justatipple
Scuffed
Joined: Sep 02, 2005
Posts: 265
Location: Welly Or Chch
|
| Posted: Mon 6th Oct 4:05pm Post subject: |
|
|
big fukin waste of tax payer money. seems to me that all the council want to spend money on is:
narrowing the roads to be more dangerous for us,
creating islands for stupid pedestrians who cant cross the roads fast enough and should be on bikes anyway,
adding speed bumps to ssip off us poor lowered ute owners,
and adding trees so you cant see the rest of the road.
Rants are fun 
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Slim
Mangled
Joined: Aug 15, 2003
Posts: 16,541
Location: Opawa
|
| Posted: Mon 6th Oct 7:47pm Post subject: |
|
|
| danose wrote: | yay - a chance for me to vent on how dratered and dangerous that design is!
actually breaches the LTSA guidelines from memory |
Exactly
I am not sure I have ever seen anyone using the cycle lanes that go up the kerb, everyone seems to just ride on the road
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danose
Mangled
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 10,742
Location: Nose City
|
| Posted: Mon 6th Oct 8:42pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Slim wrote: |
I am not sure I have ever seen anyone using the cycle lanes that go up the kerb, everyone seems to just ride on the road |
failings of the design
1) you can get doored by passengers of parked cars
2) residents regularly leave recycling bins/rubbish bags blocking the lane
3) where it remerges to the road at intersections it catches cars on side roads unawares (cyclists in a place they're not expecting fast moving traffic)
4) lane usually full of glass since the it doesn't get swept like the main road
5) lanes often have pedestrians (complete with prams) walking in them
6) riding up/down the kerbs to get on/off every section is bloody exciting at 40km/h on 23mm tyres!
I could list more - but basically the most dratered bit of cycle design I've seen in a long time - doubly bad since the traffic designer involved is himself a cyclist 
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DD-Rick
Worn
Joined: Jul 08, 2004
Posts: 575
Location: Chch
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 8:18am Post subject: |
|
|
| danose wrote: |
I could list more - but basically the most dratered bit of cycle design I've seen in a long time - doubly bad since the traffic designer involved is himself a cyclist |
To make it clear. Not me.
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Percy Pig
Mangled
Joined: May 03, 2002
Posts: 22,717
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 8:38am Post subject: |
|
|
| DD-Rick wrote: | | danose wrote: |
I could list more - but basically the most dratered bit of cycle design I've seen in a long time - doubly bad since the traffic designer involved is himself a cyclist |
To make it clear. Not me. |
Sooo.....you think its dratered as well? 
Like the bit of Lincoln road that is like that as well?
It wasnt a problem on the Yeti when I used to ride down it (yay for oodles of travel!), but on the roadie, it is teh suck so I dont bother and just ride on the road.
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danose
Mangled
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 10,742
Location: Nose City
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 11:55am Post subject: |
|
|
| DD-Rick wrote: | | danose wrote: |
I could list more - but basically the most dratered bit of cycle design I've seen in a long time - doubly bad since the traffic designer involved is himself a cyclist |
To make it clear. Not me. |
not unless you've turned german 
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jeremyb
BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 32,882
Location: Derailled
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 1:24pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Ve make it more efficient ya!
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
_the_Oli_
Scuffed
Joined: Dec 11, 2002
Posts: 411
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 1:53pm Post subject: Interesting |
|
|
this is very interesting.
i take everybody's points but there's a part of me that can't see how this design is any more dratered than the other bike lanes i have seen in chch. in fact, i think it is better (NOT optimal) than most. maybe i haven't seen them all, but everything else that springs to mind consists of a cycle lane painted onto the road by way of a white line, effectively narrowing the original car lane. i'm thinking barrington st, ferry road, ricct road etc.
how well does that design work?
- people park on it (e.g. barrington st by the footy field and fush n chups shop)
- you get doored as easily as with the tennyson design, but more frequently
- some people, especially those towing trailers, mistakenly believe it helps other members of traffic if they drive on the far left side of the lane. they do so on the bike lane. on tennyson street, at least this is not possible.
- people have no respect of the closed line associated with the cycle lane and will turn left only 5m ahead of you, sometimes less and sometimes without indicating. this being one of the few reasons i think hand guns should be allowed.
is that any better then the tennyson design? surely, the tennyson one has its flaws and one feels like a school kid when using the lane. however, i've been on it for the past 6 years and have never been near-doored and never had rubbish in the way. the only (and significant!) downsides are that cars do come out of obscured driveways and yes, one can't trust the traffic coming from the left, especially when half their bonnet is over the red bike lane and they wear sunnies (making it impossible to know whether they see you or not as you approach)
i guess all solutions have their flaws. the main problem in NZ is the lack of proper drive training - especially in chch people drive erratically and unpredictably and often they are simply oblivious to the fact that there's cyclists. therefore the only solution is a bike lane that is physically separate from the car lanes, and that is hard or impossible to achieve. and, as has been pointed out, it does have associated downsides in areas where there's a driveway every 10m.
i dont know the solution either....
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danose
Mangled
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 10,742
Location: Nose City
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 1:55pm Post subject: RE: Interesting |
|
|
| _the_Oli_ wrote: | | i've been on it for the past 6 years and have never been near-doored and never had rubbish in the way |
yes, but someone trundling along at 20km/h on a santa cruz isn't in the same situation as someone on a roadie doing twice that speed 
seriously - that design disenfranchises roadies 100% - it's downright roadie hostile 
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
_the_Oli_
Scuffed
Joined: Dec 11, 2002
Posts: 411
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 2:03pm Post subject: |
|
|
good point
sorry, i keep forgetting roadies who are, after all, also humans 
20 km/h? we should ride to work together sometime
so what is a better design then, everybody?
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BianchiBoy
Dusty
Joined: Jun 18, 2007
Posts: 49
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 2:41pm Post subject: |
|
|
I used to regularly ride on Tennyson street before the alterations. After, I used the road rather than the bike lane for all the reasons Danose has stated. That annoyed car drivers and quite rightly so. Tthere was a cycle lane available that I was not using. So I stopped riding on Tennyson Street, haven't done so for years.
[/quote]
failings of the design
1) you can get doored by passengers of parked cars
2) residents regularly leave recycling bins/rubbish bags blocking the lane
3) where it remerges to the road at intersections it catches cars on side roads unawares (cyclists in a place they're not expecting fast moving traffic)
4) lane usually full of glass since the it doesn't get swept like the main road
5) lanes often have pedestrians (complete with prams) walking in them
6) riding up/down the kerbs to get on/off every section is bloody exciting at 40km/h on 23mm tyres!
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BianchiBoy
Dusty
Joined: Jun 18, 2007
Posts: 49
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 2:47pm Post subject: |
|
|
|
Oh, and another thing, it's ugly. Who would want to live there?
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
_the_Oli_
Scuffed
Joined: Dec 11, 2002
Posts: 411
|
| Posted: Tue 7th Oct 2:58pm Post subject: |
|
|
| BianchiBoy wrote: | | Oh, and another thing, it's ugly. Who would want to live there? |
true. but there are plenty of equally ugly surburbs. they still deserve a functioning bike lane though i reckon. after all, they get used also by bikers from nicer surburbs.
ha - how counterproductiev is that ... did CCC not consult the biking community before deciding on the design? amazing.
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
