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Lambretta
Scuffed
Joined: Feb 28, 2007
Posts: 343
Location: There's only One Hunga
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 Posted: Tue 28/Oct/08 3:34pm Post subject: |
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Names, we want names!
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Joel
Wrecked
Joined: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 6,112
Location: Welly
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| Posted: Tue 28/Oct/08 3:51pm Post subject: |
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| thekiwi wrote: | Another question on tactics/ethics/etiquette.
Was talking to a Pro rider on the weekend and got discussing a large NZ race (not a tour) from last year in which him and his team mate were working over a prominent Kiwi rider.
Nearing the end the Kiwi rider calls it enough and together they negotiate a finish ... the Kiwi rider will yield the win if the duo stop attacking him.
HOwever at the line said Kiwi rider sprints for the win. Afterwards when asked what on earth was up his reply was "I'll say what ever I need to get the win".
Ive heard of deals often being made near the end of the race, but is this normal at the Elite end of the field and "acceptable" or specific only to this rider? |
that sounds like last years K2
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pancho
Dusty
Joined: Feb 10, 2008
Posts: 57
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| Posted: Tue 28/Oct/08 8:38pm Post subject: |
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you weren't talking to this pro rider in hawkes bay were you?
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joker
Shiny
Joined: Aug 14, 2008
Posts: 25
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| Posted: Tue 28/Oct/08 9:34pm Post subject: |
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You must not have heard the whole story, this pro rider and his fellow team mates tryed to jew over a lone rider, however the power and brains of this lone wolf could not be topped by a whole pro team.
talent
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Al_Bushman
Flogged
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Posts: 2,104
Location: In the box
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| Posted: Tue 28/Oct/08 9:46pm Post subject: |
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| Joel wrote: | | thekiwi wrote: | Another question on tactics/ethics/etiquette.
Was talking to a Pro rider on the weekend and got discussing a large NZ race (not a tour) from last year in which him and his team mate were working over a prominent Kiwi rider.
Nearing the end the Kiwi rider calls it enough and together they negotiate a finish ... the Kiwi rider will yield the win if the duo stop attacking him.
HOwever at the line said Kiwi rider sprints for the win. Afterwards when asked what on earth was up his reply was "I'll say what ever I need to get the win".
Ive heard of deals often being made near the end of the race, but is this normal at the Elite end of the field and "acceptable" or specific only to this rider? |
that sounds like last years K2 |
 Lesson = Never trust a cyclist. Ego will always get in the way of etiquite.
If the other two had it in them to make the Kiwi rider blow to bits - then why didn't they do just that? Sounds like they both learnt a hard lesson.
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thekiwi
Thrashed
Joined: Jan 06, 2005
Posts: 1,790
Location: 127.0.0.1
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| Posted: Wed 29/Oct/08 9:49am Post subject: |
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| Al_Bushman wrote: | | Joel wrote: | | thekiwi wrote: | Another question on tactics/ethics/etiquette.
Was talking to a Pro rider on the weekend and got discussing a large NZ race (not a tour) from last year in which him and his team mate were working over a prominent Kiwi rider.
Nearing the end the Kiwi rider calls it enough and together they negotiate a finish ... the Kiwi rider will yield the win if the duo stop attacking him.
HOwever at the line said Kiwi rider sprints for the win. Afterwards when asked what on earth was up his reply was "I'll say what ever I need to get the win".
Ive heard of deals often being made near the end of the race, but is this normal at the Elite end of the field and "acceptable" or specific only to this rider? |
that sounds like last years K2 |
Lesson = Never trust a cyclist. Ego will always get in the way of etiquite.
If the other two had it in them to make the Kiwi rider blow to bits - then why didn't they do just that? Sounds like they both learnt a hard lesson. |
I guess everyone wants to win, and with other big races a few days later everyone wants the easiest route. Yes, valuable lesson in more ways than one.
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Gavatron
Ridden
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Joined: Jul 01, 2008
Posts: 143
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| Posted: Tue 4/Nov/08 9:23pm Post subject: RE: Road Racing Rules / Etiquette |
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| thekiwi wrote: | | In our last race it seems some of break who we had caught are complaining the scratch attacked too soon out of the turn and made it too hard for them to stay with us. |
I'm new to racing this year and missed the one club handicap race since I started so I'm not familiar with the terminology. So can I check it out? (Most of our club races are graded with some age-group stuff thrown in pre club nationals).
I take it scratch is the fastest group of riders who start off zero and are "breaks" the progressively slower groups of handicapped riders who start various times earlier?
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OliverBendix
Worn
Joined: Jul 31, 2006
Posts: 597
Location: Paddling in the Waiwhetu stream, Lower Hutt.
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| Posted: Tue 4/Nov/08 9:31pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. If you've got 6 groups, Limit (slowest) goes first, then Break 4, 3, 2 and Break, then Scratch (fast boys) last, all with their respective handicap gaps between them and sometimes a bit of an extra safety buffer.
<edit - forgot about Limit, cheers Joel>
Last edited by OliverBendix on Tue 4/Nov/08 9:34pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joel
Wrecked
Joined: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 6,112
Location: Welly
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| Posted: Tue 4/Nov/08 9:32pm Post subject: RE: Re: Road Racing Rules / Etiquette |
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| Gavatron wrote: | | thekiwi wrote: | | In our last race it seems some of break who we had caught are complaining the scratch attacked too soon out of the turn and made it too hard for them to stay with us. |
I'm new to racing this year and missed the one club handicap race since I started so I'm not familiar with the terminology. So can I check it out? (Most of our club races are graded with some age-group stuff thrown in pre club nationals).
I take it scratch is the fastest group of riders who start off zero and are "breaks" the progressively slower groups of handicapped riders who start various times earlier? |
thats it. and limit is the group who start the earliest
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Gavatron
Ridden
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Joined: Jul 01, 2008
Posts: 143
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| Posted: Tue 4/Nov/08 10:08pm Post subject: |
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Cheers guys.
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Gavatron
Ridden
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Joined: Jul 01, 2008
Posts: 143
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| Posted: Fri 21/Nov/08 7:57am Post subject: |
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| bicyclegod wrote: | | Attacking is not something that is considered good etiquette, unless of course you are an elite cyclist. If you are in a handicap race, then you should not attack your own bunch, but feel free to attack inside the last 10km, and you can attack anyone else's bunch at any time, even at a turn. |
Why not? Why leave attacking until the last 10km? Is it because if you have been graded (handicapped) correctly there shouldn't be burglars?
I'm asking because this is my first year racing and I have my first handicap race in a fortnight.
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Joel
Wrecked
Joined: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 6,112
Location: Welly
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| Posted: Fri 21/Nov/08 8:25am Post subject: |
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| Gavatron wrote: | | bicyclegod wrote: | | Attacking is not something that is considered good etiquette, unless of course you are an elite cyclist. If you are in a handicap race, then you should not attack your own bunch, but feel free to attack inside the last 10km, and you can attack anyone else's bunch at any time, even at a turn. |
Why not? Why leave attacking until the last 10km? Is it because if you have been graded (handicapped) correctly there shouldn't be burglars?
I'm asking because this is my first year racing and I have my first handicap race in a fortnight. |
so with handicap racing your best chance lay with working together as a group to catch the groups ahead and keep the faster groups at bay. If your attacking your bunch, your disrupting the flow and slowing it down. Doing yourself and others in the bunch no favours.
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Gavatron
Ridden
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Joined: Jul 01, 2008
Posts: 143
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| Posted: Fri 21/Nov/08 8:38am Post subject: |
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| Joel wrote: | | so with handicap racing your best chance lay with working together as a group to catch the groups ahead and keep the faster groups at bay. If your attacking your bunch, your disrupting the flow and slowing it down. Doing yourself and others in the bunch no favours. |
Aaah... I was overlooking the group thing versus the individual results. So initially you work together for the good of everyone because that's most effective but in the end its everyone for themselves as per normal? The advice was work together until the last 10km but in how long a race? For example our race coming up is 40km. What would be the go there?
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Gordio
People's Champion
Joined: Feb 11, 2008
Posts: 277
Location: Auckland
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| Posted: Fri 21/Nov/08 8:43am Post subject: |
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Smash them when ever you like! The sooner the front groups destroy themselves the easier it is for us scratch guys to catch you.
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Grant
Flogged
Joined: Aug 26, 2004
Posts: 2,785
Location: Miramar Peak
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| Posted: Fri 21/Nov/08 8:45am Post subject: |
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If it's anything like my first graded race I'd be more concerned with holding on rather than where to attack 
Focus on working well with your group, if you're holding back waiting to attack I'm guessing you'll be out of the running anyway. Handicap racing can be a bit of a hammer fest 
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