| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Dazzle
Mangled
Joined: Feb 11, 2002
Posts: 12,968
|
 Posted: Fri 10th Oct 10:55am Post subject: |
  |
|
| schmedley wrote: | | After reading what I have of Steven Swart's testimony and that of others who worked within his team, I have to believe the guy was dirty. |
Swart was saying things about all the riders being dirty when he first walked away from tour riding and returned to NZ. He wasn't exactly keeping quiet about it. This is before Armstrong was a household name.
But well, given the era, Armstrong would only have been as dirty as the next name in the pack.
Those 99 'b' samples sure would be interesting to test.... Outside of 8 years now, but still it would be interesting....
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
businesstime
Ridden
Joined: May 05, 2008
Posts: 174
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 11:14am Post subject: |
|
|
| Dazzle wrote: | | schmedley wrote: | | After reading what I have of Steven Swart's testimony and that of others who worked within his team, I have to believe the guy was dirty. |
Swart was saying things about all the riders being dirty when he first walked away from tour riding and returned to NZ. He wasn't exactly keeping quiet about it. This is before Armstrong was a household name.
But well, given the era, Armstrong would only have been as dirty as the next name in the pack.
Those 99 'b' samples sure would be interesting to test.... Outside of 8 years now, but still it would be interesting.... |
The fact is can you trust the holders of the samples not to have tampered with them over 8 years. Thats a big issue for me and I think its fair enough LA doesnt want them retested. Imagine how many staff have had access to those over this time. And there would be few LA supporters amongst them.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dazzle
Mangled
Joined: Feb 11, 2002
Posts: 12,968
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 11:28am Post subject: |
|
|
The reason the 99 samples came into play in the first place was that a bunch of already used anonymous 'A' samples were re-done to calibrate a new EPO test. Some of those tests came back positive, and the tabloid press linked the sample numbers from the positives back to the sample numbers for Armstrong in 99.
To make it out to be a conspiracy to frame the man in yellow, you would be relying on a Mabuse like figure to pull the strings of all the agency's involved to make it all line up and come out.
The trouble with conspiracies, loose lips, pillow talk, the more people know a secret conspiracy the more likely it is to get out. There are people saying they KNOW Lance was on the EPO, but I don't see anyone saying they KNOW someone nobbled the 99 'A' samples.
Heck, if you believe that level of conspiracy, lets throw into the ring the conspiracy that Armstrong is dirty, but is running a black-hat intelligence action against himself. By pulling the strings to make public shaky/shonky stories about him being a doper, when a REAL/SOLID story comes out he can say 'Look, it is another baseless attack on me like previous story x,y,z.'
But yeah, whatever, it is all outside the limitations now anyway. If a dirty rider beats other dirty riders, does it make it less of a win?
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Simonk
Ridden
Joined: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 179
Location: Wellington, NZ
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 2:37pm Post subject: |
|
|
"If a dirty rider beats other dirty riders, does it make it less of a win? "
That angle of defence only holds true if every rider was on the juice. If there were clean riders in the Tour (and I'll bet there were) then the fastest of them deserves the yellow jersey.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
istepinyards
Wrecked
Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 5,824
Location: Rooting for the SunDevils
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 5:04pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Spokes wrote: | | istepinyards wrote: |
Also why believe him as a truthful sportsman and not believe others?
|
Because he's never tested positive. |
Yeh now thats a great reason 
I have never tested positive for crabs either but I sure am itchy down below
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spokes
Wrecked
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 5,045
Location: Loving LA
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 5:07pm Post subject: |
|
|
| istepinyards wrote: | | Spokes wrote: | | istepinyards wrote: |
Also why believe him as a truthful sportsman and not believe others?
|
Because he's never tested positive. |
Yeh now thats a great reason
I have never tested positive for crabs either but I sure am itchy down below |
We get that you dont like LA.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
istepinyards
Wrecked
Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 5,824
Location: Rooting for the SunDevils
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 5:13pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Spokes wrote: | | schmedley wrote: |
others who worked within his team, I have to believe the guy was dirty.
|
So these guys that admitted doping, they have given there money and trophys back? |
Name one that has?
I personally could not give a kcuf if he is dirty or clean. I have my suspicions he had alot of "pine-o-clean" to wash away the dirtiness. That will not take away the fact he is a great athlete and the best Tour De France rider that has walked the earth to date.
I still give Pantani his Tour win even knowing he juiced up to the eyeballs. Same goes for a few others.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
istepinyards
Wrecked
Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 5,824
Location: Rooting for the SunDevils
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 5:15pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Spokes wrote: | | istepinyards wrote: | | Spokes wrote: | | istepinyards wrote: |
Also why believe him as a truthful sportsman and not believe others?
|
Because he's never tested positive. |
Yeh now thats a great reason
I have never tested positive for crabs either but I sure am itchy down below |
We get that you dont like LA. |
Read my above post
I hate the man, but NOT the athlete. Big difference.
Hope this helps you out champ.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spokes
Wrecked
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 5,045
Location: Loving LA
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 5:15pm Post subject: |
|
|
| istepinyards wrote: | | Spokes wrote: | | schmedley wrote: |
others who worked within his team, I have to believe the guy was dirty.
|
So these guys that admitted doping, they have given there money and trophys back? |
Name one that has?
. |
I dont know any that have. Thats part of the problem.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
istepinyards
Wrecked
Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 5,824
Location: Rooting for the SunDevils
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 5:19pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Spokes wrote: | | istepinyards wrote: | | Spokes wrote: | | schmedley wrote: |
others who worked within his team, I have to believe the guy was dirty.
|
So these guys that admitted doping, they have given there money and trophys back? |
Name one that has?
. |
I dont know any that have. Thats part of the problem. |
They have only tested positive at that point in time. They have only cheated theoretically that day or however long that substance has been in the body. If they tested negative the day before or the day after than they are clean as a whistle.
Perception is the key here
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Spokes
Wrecked
Joined: Nov 13, 2005
Posts: 5,045
Location: Loving LA
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 5:38pm Post subject: |
|
|
| istepinyards wrote: | | Spokes wrote: | | istepinyards wrote: | | Spokes wrote: | | schmedley wrote: |
others who worked within his team, I have to believe the guy was dirty.
|
So these guys that admitted doping, they have given there money and trophys back? |
Name one that has?
. |
I dont know any that have. Thats part of the problem. |
They have only tested positive at that point in time. They have only cheated theoretically that day or however long that substance has been in the body. If they tested negative the day before or the day after than they are clean as a whistle.
Perception is the key here |
Doesnt the random testing solve that issue?
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
istepinyards
Wrecked
Joined: Feb 13, 2007
Posts: 5,824
Location: Rooting for the SunDevils
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 5:44pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Spokes wrote: | | istepinyards wrote: | | Spokes wrote: | | istepinyards wrote: | | Spokes wrote: | | schmedley wrote: |
others who worked within his team, I have to believe the guy was dirty.
|
So these guys that admitted doping, they have given there money and trophys back? |
Name one that has?
. |
I dont know any that have. Thats part of the problem. |
They have only tested positive at that point in time. They have only cheated theoretically that day or however long that substance has been in the body. If they tested negative the day before or the day after than they are clean as a whistle.
Perception is the key here |
Doesnt the random testing solve that issue? |
No you can have a couple of no-shows before you get a positive through non-compliance. Getting harder to do now but was pretty effective before.
BALCO case in point. American Track Sprinters did this to great effect and only got caught through a coach rolling over.
Big risk= big gain.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
MTBER56
Dusty
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Posts: 99
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 6:08pm Post subject: Stuff Bout Lance |
|
|
|
Leave him alone he,s only got one nut.
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oli
Mangled
Joined: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 31,921
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 11:10pm Post subject: |
|
|
| istepinyards wrote: | | Spokes wrote: | | So these guys that admitted doping, they have given there money and trophys back? |
Name one that has? |
Not a roadie in the strict sense, although he did ride the Tour for Festina, Jerome Chiotti.
Without ever testing postive, and off his own bat, in 2000 he confessed to using EPO to win the 1996 MTB Worlds, and set up a presentation of his rainbow jersey and trophy to Thomas Frischknecht.
Just saying. 
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Oli
Mangled
Joined: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 31,921
|
| Posted: Fri 10th Oct 11:14pm Post subject: |
|
|
This is him...he allegedly smoked Dunhill Red and drank a lot of Heineken too. 
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
