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JXC
Worn
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Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 522
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 Posted: Sun 7th Sep 11:53pm Post subject: Cotic Soul As Xc Bike? |
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How would the soul go as a XC bike?
Im talking the whole hog XC, ie: flat bars, bar ends, 100mm (max) forks, to the sky seat. Ive seen a few set-ups on the net, but all use a trail/XC set-up more (well in my eyes, riser bars etc).
Looking at using it for marathon length events and up but after a hardtail due to less maintance issues. Can anyone offer some insights into what I may need to be awear of in regards to foregoing a traditional XC race frame (pros and cons)? other than weight.
Would love to hear from anyone who has one or understands the bikes geometry.
Thank you in advance.
(Geometry-wise the med size soul appears to be similar to a large Rocky mountain "blizzard" - I think thats the name?)
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dented
Mangled
Joined: Oct 03, 2005
Posts: 9,679
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 1:57am Post subject: |
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I would think not bad, as far as the marathon stuff goes. Are you looking at 12/24hr solo type stuff?
I have ridden one (demo lap), at a 24hr event, hard to tell much from 1 lap, although the suppleness over my alumnium XC hardtail was noticeable.
The slightly relaxed geo over a race HT would probably be of benefit for marathon stuff. Having said that, I would not be opposed to risers anyway, as I get lower back pain after too many hours in the saddle in the 'XC race' position, so prefer a more upright sitting position.
At the end of the day, you really are probably comparing a short travel full sus (like a trance), but foregoing the maintenance issues in favour of a hardtail, where you are foregoing the weight penalty over a lighter race bike, in favour of a more pliable ride quality.
Not a bad option IMO
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thorg
tired
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 13,190
Location: moving on. . . . and up
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 7:19am Post subject: |
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I have spent a few hours on friends' ones - as well as the Simple (same geo).
designed around an (up to ) 130mm fork, dropping to 100mm will sharpen the handling to more XC style. Though not a XC 'racer 'like an XTC, it still has the handling to be competitive in the right hands (though doesnt any bike?).
I love the way the bike climbs, and its 'suppleness' is well known (see how many riders put pace rigid forks on them).
If around welly, demo one 
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SlackBoy
Mangled
Joined: Dec 25, 2001
Posts: 18,041
Location: Showing my tan lines
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 8:50am Post subject: |
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If your looking at a hardtail for XC particulary longer type ones. then Steel is THE ONLY option (well maybe carbon). Far more forgiving on the body than an aluminuim HT.
And steel's fo' real baby
*cept if you have bigger wheels than aluminuim is ok*
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honeymonster
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Joined: Apr 22, 2004
Posts: 2,062
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 9:10am Post subject: |
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Cotic sponsor Kate Potter, currently the no. 3 ranked female XC racer in Aussie. She rides a Soda (Ti but otherwise 100% identical to the Soul) in 24hr team and solo, marathon and good old XC races in Aussie and the UK. She's recently won a couple of the UK national XC rounds and podiumed at the Aussie National rounds.
So I'd suggest it goes quite well. Have look at the news section on www.cotic.co.uk for Kates results and reports.
I also use a Simple (Soul, but singlespeed) as my 24 hour solo and marathon bike. I do OK on it.
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swtchbckr
Worn
Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 537
Location: Chacha
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 1:56pm Post subject: |
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What all of them said...
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JXC
Worn
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Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Posts: 522
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 5:31pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies,
I've been putting in a fair bit of internet "research" into this and yea its looking good so far. I saw the Soda being used as a race bike but was a bit unsure if that was more due to Cotic not having a "XC" race bike as yet (I see they are working on a XC fully).
From geeking it out I have found (with 100mm forks):
74 seattube (sounds ok yea? how far is that off a real race bike like the XTC?)
71 headtube (again, I get the impression thats on the money?)
30cm high BB (seems XCish?)
Long toptubes, but I would normally fit a 58-59ish top tube so a med frame with a 90mm stem would be bang on?
What parts or design features of the bike move it away from the XC world? (this is where Im getting lost, or is it a XC bike strong enough to handle longer forks?)
Thank you again.
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radical_edward
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Joined: Mar 10, 2004
Posts: 3,809
Location: The not too distant future...
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 6:01pm Post subject: |
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| JXC wrote: | What parts or design features of the bike move it away from the XC world? (this is where Im getting lost, or is it a XC bike strong enough to handle longer forks?)
Thank you again. |
I thought the Soul was originally designed around a 100mm fork?
For a while, 130mm was the trail norm, and running said length forks on a hardtail like the Soul is a win. A hardtail built around 130mm forks with a sharp head angle gets downright dodgy at full compression.
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Monolith
Mangled
Joined: Nov 11, 2005
Posts: 14,240
Location: Sharpening my shanks
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 6:10pm Post subject: |
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| honeymonster wrote: | Cotic sponsor Kate Potter, currently the no. 3 ranked female XC racer in Aussie. She rides a Soda (Ti but otherwise 100% identical to the Soul) in 24hr team and solo, marathon and good old XC races in Aussie and the UK. She's recently won a couple of the UK national XC rounds and podiumed at the Aussie National rounds.
So I'd suggest it goes quite well. Have look at the news section on www.cotic.co.uk for Kates results and reports.
I also use a Simple (Soul, but singlespeed) as my 24 hour solo and marathon bike. I do OK on it. |
Paul,
are you bringing any Sodas in to NZ? Perhaps in size medium? 
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honeymonster
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Joined: Apr 22, 2004
Posts: 2,062
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 6:28pm Post subject: |
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| JXC wrote: | Thanks for the replies,
I've been putting in a fair bit of internet "research" into this and yea its looking good so far. I saw the Soda being used as a race bike but was a bit unsure if that was more due to Cotic not having a "XC" race bike as yet (I see they are working on a XC fully).
From geeking it out I have found (with 100mm forks):
74 seattube (sounds ok yea? how far is that off a real race bike like the XTC?)
71 headtube (again, I get the impression thats on the money?)
30cm high BB (seems XCish?)
Long toptubes, but I would normally fit a 58-59ish top tube so a med frame with a 90mm stem would be bang on?
What parts or design features of the bike move it away from the XC world? (this is where Im getting lost, or is it a XC bike strong enough to handle longer forks?)
Thank you again. |
Spot on. Its an XC bike capable of running 100-130mm forks. So it is stronger, a bit heavier, and the geometry is set up to work at both ends of the travel range. The marketers call that 'trail' now. But really its a bike we all used to use for XC racing, long days out or playing out on the rougher stuff.
At the moment any plans for new Cotic frames are on hold... thanks to the chief looking after a baby and toddler, and European certification stuff coming up next year that will keep them busy.
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Jim
Joined: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 1,866
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 6:28pm Post subject: |
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I have a Soul set up with 130mm front end and a 90mm stem with risers. If I am not sat on the front of the seat when climbing the steeper end of scale tracks the front can get a bit light and wonder about. I think that really is a problem with my riding style and inability to ride steep stuff, not the bikes. Other wise its a damn good bike.
I also have a Simple set up with 80mm stem and 100mm suspension adjusted rigids. Goes like a rocket. Front does not drift about on climbs, but thats due to me either walking or being stood up mashing the pedals to force myself up the climb.
As for where it goes away from XC race frames, I would say it might have a fraction slacker head angle and be stronger to take the longer forks. Ok, this mgiht give the Soul not so super super fast handerling of a true race frame (like the XTC). But it does mean that it can be ridden for all day missions and you will still be smiling at the end.
The frame was designed as a long travel XC bike, it was to be 100 to 130mm travel, I believe that it was not a 100mm frame that has been upgraded to take 130mm.
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honeymonster
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Joined: Apr 22, 2004
Posts: 2,062
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 6:32pm Post subject: |
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| Monolith wrote: | | honeymonster wrote: | Cotic sponsor Kate Potter, currently the no. 3 ranked female XC racer in Aussie. She rides a Soda (Ti but otherwise 100% identical to the Soul) in 24hr team and solo, marathon and good old XC races in Aussie and the UK. She's recently won a couple of the UK national XC rounds and podiumed at the Aussie National rounds.
So I'd suggest it goes quite well. Have look at the news section on www.cotic.co.uk for Kates results and reports.
I also use a Simple (Soul, but singlespeed) as my 24 hour solo and marathon bike. I do OK on it. |
Paul,
are you bringing any Sodas in to NZ? Perhaps in size medium? |
Funnily enough you are the second person to ask that today!
At present Cotic don't have any. But if there is interest (and firm orders!) I might get a handful from the next Cotic order. No idea when that might be though. They tend to wait for orders to mount then get them - rather than having lots of cash tied up in stocks of the wonder-metal. And they have only recently got the last lot (and sold them all very quickly).
Drop me a note if you are keen and I'll tap up Cy for info.
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honeymonster
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Joined: Apr 22, 2004
Posts: 2,062
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 6:34pm Post subject: |
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| Jim wrote: | | The frame was designed as a long travel XC bike, it was to be 100 to 130mm travel, I believe that it was not a 100mm frame that has been upgraded to take 130mm. |
I thought you'd know your stuff Jim... yep. designed for 100-130mm forks from the start. No dodgy upgrading of frames here thanks 
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Jim
Joined: Aug 30, 2004
Posts: 1,866
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 6:47pm Post subject: |
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You got mail.
oh and just weighed the Soul, ok light forks, 2.3 and 2.1 big tyres (big for said size) A mixture of X7/X9, LX, Thompson, WTB DMR hubs Delgardo rims, tubes. Not light stuff but not DH built. Comes in at 27lbs.
Could lose a lot of weight of of that very very easiley.
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Malcy
Shrinking by the day
Joined: Dec 01, 2002
Posts: 5,183
Location: Windy Wellington
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| Posted: Mon 8th Sep 7:14pm Post subject: |
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This thread means nothing without Colin! 
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