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jeremyb
BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 32,882
Location: Derailled
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 Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 3:17pm Post subject: |
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| inzane wrote: |
Now JB that is just not true. Every time you accelerate the bike the rotational weight of the wheels comes into play. Yes on a hill climb you will notice it more, but are you trying to tell me that on the flat, especially in a road race that you are not accelerating (changing speed) all the time?? Each time you roll through, corner, sprint etc you are having to accelerate the wheels. The heavier the rotating mass of the wheel, the harder it is to accelerate...
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On the flat that extra weight which requires more energy to accelerate also gives you more momentum, going up hills its a different story... 
Also the fastest wheels, i.e. disks are much heavier than a normal wheel, aerodynamics is probably more noticeable than weight 
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inzane
Wrecked
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 6,598
Location: churchur
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 3:29pm Post subject: |
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| jeremyb wrote: |
On the flat that extra weight which requires more energy to accelerate also gives you more momentum, going up hills its a different story...
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So going by your theory we should all be riding the heaviest wheels we can possibly find when riding on the flat as they will keep the most momentum and therefore somehow save us energy??
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CaptainCaveman
Mangled
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: 11,347
Location: Wherever...
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 3:34pm Post subject: |
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In my humble experience, lighter is always better, so long as the wheels remain rigid enough to lever against. Once you build so light you start feeling that mussy feeling under power, you're wasting effort.
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Lambretta
Scuffed
Joined: Feb 28, 2007
Posts: 322
Location: There's only One Hunga
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 3:35pm Post subject: |
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| inzane wrote: |
It is not like you have to earn the money to pay for these things by putting in hours on the bike!! |
You don't know my wife.... 
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Conners
Seeing Double
Joined: Jul 09, 2003
Posts: 3,797
Location: bjcfilms editing suite, Welly
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 3:47pm Post subject: |
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 | Oli wrote: | | "Too embarrassed to front to a race" - what a judgmental snob. |
Couldn't agree more, Oli.
It's a sad day when you're begrudging someone for their bling.
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musket
Mangled
Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 8,672
Location: Transient
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 5:11pm Post subject: |
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| inzane wrote: | | jeremyb wrote: |
On the flat that extra weight which requires more energy to accelerate also gives you more momentum, going up hills its a different story...
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So going by your theory we should all be riding the heaviest wheels we can possibly find when riding on the flat as they will keep the most momentum and therefore somehow save us energy?? |
Exactly. If the pace is consistent. A lighter wheel is easier to accelerate, but holds speed less well.
The world hour record was set on a disc specially built to weigh in excess of 3kgs - to ensure once top speed was attained, Sosyenka could maintain it with a minimum of energy.
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Gavatron
Dusty
Joined: Jul 01, 2008
Posts: 118
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 5:56pm Post subject: |
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I've done a bit of rec riding over the years but racing is new to me and the Roubaix is the dearest cycle I've ever bought so I appreciate the input.
What I've taken from the debate is essentially:
* The Roubaix is a good ride as is and the Ultegra wheelset is more than adequate for a rider at my level and then some.
* Lighter wheels are better (so long as they don't go mushy, and I do know what that means)
* If I want some bling and can afford it, I will buy it.
But the advice has been useful and I may even take the advice to buy some cheaper training wheels and use the Ultegras with some race tyres on for Saturdays. May.
Cheers
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Oli
Mangled
Joined: Aug 03, 2005
Posts: 32,266
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 6:08pm Post subject: |
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Well done! It's rare that anyone can take anything useful from a thread once Danose and I start arguing! 
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barcode
Thrashed
Joined: May 14, 2006
Posts: 1,872
Location: Rolling across your bonnet, very probably
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 6:11pm Post subject: |
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I think hell just froze over
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neels
Slightly below average
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 1,182
Location: Waiting for the great leap forward
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 6:26pm Post subject: |
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| Oli wrote: | | Well done! It's rare that anyone can take anything useful from a thread once Danose and I start arguing! |
Well you guys are quite good at it, so it's worth it to sit back with the popcorn and enjoy
edit: Oh, and by the way you both made some good points when I was asking for advice
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Al_Bushman
Flogged
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Posts: 2,072
Location: In the box
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 8:39pm Post subject: |
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Good bike choice Grav!!
I got the Tarmac Expert a year ago and love it. I only have 1 set of wheels and they are the factory Mavic Equips the bike came with which weigh in at a massive 1880g. I race A grade and for a team and can usually foot it with the best despite their superior carbon deep dish wheelsets. Accelleration is an issue for me though, but climbing is not.
I do lust after carbon wheels and am sure I would be faster with them - but simply can't afford them. My advice is to just train more (read "smarter") - that's where you'll see the biggest improvement! 
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Joel
Wrecked
Joined: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 5,844
Location: Welly
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| Posted: Thu 3rd Jul 8:58pm Post subject: |
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for me personally, in the choice between lightweight and aero. went for aero with some 50mm HED jets... not too heavy at around low 1600g for the pair. but heavy when compared to carbon tubs at 1300-1400g.
ideally i would go carbon tubs, but i don't have wheel wagon following in our regional races! and only one hill top finish in the wellington racing calendar (rice mtn classic).. rest of our racing is rolling.
definitely notice the assistance of the aero when you slide of the front of a bunch... just feels easier!
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danose
Mangled
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 10,741
Location: Nose City
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| Posted: Fri 4th Jul 12:43pm Post subject: |
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| Al_Bushman wrote: | Accelleration is an issue for me though, but climbing is not.
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is that your excuse - so when you were grumbling to bigO about my ability to accelerate how do you factor in my 'race' wheels being all off 100g lighter than yours (might have something to do with the 15+kg rider mass diff?  )
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I do lust after carbon wheels and am sure I would be faster with them - but simply can't afford them. My advice is to just train more (read "smarter") - that's where you'll see the biggest improvement! |
same with me - I could buy some crazy light bling wheelset, and they'd look cool (and also be worth about 3 times what the rest of the bike is worth) - but I know it'd make basically no difference to my actual riding (and having had to rebuild the front this year I was glad it was a nice 'cheap' dt rr1.1 rim and not a high end kysrium rim)
now if someone can find me a good souce of blackmarket EPO and HGH.....
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danose
Mangled
Joined: May 27, 2004
Posts: 10,741
Location: Nose City
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| Posted: Fri 4th Jul 12:46pm Post subject: |
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| Joel wrote: |
definitely notice the assistance of the aero when you slide of the front of a bunch... just feels easier! |
what I want to know is the relative efficiency gains of deep section wheels vs a very agressive/aero setup on the bike? Is the gain from working on your flexibility to allow you to put out full power in the drops with 6" of drop to the bars better or worse than what you gain from deep wheels?
I'm sure fergie will have the guff....
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Fergie
Wrecked
Joined: Jun 04, 2006
Posts: 4,963
Location: Taking up a lot of the cycle lane on a street near you!
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| Posted: Fri 4th Jul 1:28pm Post subject: |
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Gain far more from a good body position on the bike. Would have to go through my stuff at home but I seem to recall an aero helmet provides more advantage than a set of aero wheels.
I would also factor in the advantages of a decent set of tyres. Having gone from GP4000S 23mm to GP 4Seasons 28mm I have gone the other way and feel like I am riding through sludge. On the boards of Invercargill the difference between 180gr Conti Tempos and 150gr Vit Pista Evos is huge.
Aero is one thing but you need to be able to produce power in any position. With the ex gymnast flexibility but belly from HELL I can get in a very aero position but power drops by 40-50 watts.
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