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jamesm
Dusty
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 88
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 Posted: Thu 15th May 8:51am Post subject: Trying To Lose Weight |
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So having completed my vo2 and lactate test i have decided i really need to try and lose weight to get my power to weight ratio up.
im 79kg and think i could get down to about 70.
I use a garmin edge 705 which tells me calories burnt per workout. I also use trainingpeaks.com which does the same.
I have noticed that if i ride at say below my LT for 1 hour 40min.. say averaging 140pbm and avergae 29km/h i burn 2100calories..
and then this morning i did a time trial interval session (5km efforts at just below LTP).. with a warm up and warm down.. the total session was 1hour 35min and the avergae speed was slightly lower (because of the rest periods. 28km/h but avergae HR of 150bpm i only burnt 1800calories..
I would have thought that i would burn more calories with the high intensity workout even tho it was slightly shorter? or is this not the case?
im thinking that if i add up calories burnt from eash workout and the calories burnt just from gerneal living per day.. ( i dont know what this would be? 3000cal for adult male?) and eat slightly less calories per day i should lose some weight.. if i could do 1kg per week it would be good...
is this ok?
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orangecruz
Queen of F$%ing Everything
Joined: May 09, 2005
Posts: 3,926
Location: Wellington
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 8:56am Post subject: |
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I used a internet based programme when I was first trying to work it all out. put in weight, height etc, then it told me how many calories I should eat and let me record them religiously every day. Added exercise to that - which was also recorded and subtracted.
Was a good way to get my head around how much I should be eating in a day.
Now I have just gone back to being nutty and obsesssive and eating as little as possible most of the time then suddenly binging on large amounts of food and alcohol! 
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Grapefruit
Wrecked
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 5,377
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:03am Post subject: |
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umm are you trying to lose fat or muscle?
greater intensity does not mean your burning more 'fat', it just takes all your glycogen stores first...from what ive read your best way to burn fat is to stay in your zone1 to zone 2 range of your HR, (as you have a HR monitor i assume you know what those are) for long periods of time, ie. 2hours!
.imho.
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Zoom
Scuffed
Joined: Mar 26, 2007
Posts: 450
Location: Getting ready for Transrockies
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:07am Post subject: |
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| orangecruz wrote: | | Now I have just gone back to being nutty and obsesssive and eating as little as possible most of the time then suddenly binging on large amounts of food and alcohol! |
That is a legitimate and proven strategy that many people use 
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Scaredy_Cat
Night Rider
Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Posts: 1,464
Location: Daydreaming...
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:11am Post subject: |
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| Grapefruit wrote: | | from what ive read your best way to burn fat is to stay in your zone1 to zone 2 range of your HR, (as you have a HR monitor i assume you know what those are) for long periods of time, ie. 2hours!.imho. |
2 hours is a long time???  
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Grapefruit
Wrecked
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 5,377
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:20am Post subject: |
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the best way to lose weight is to cycle for 70gazillion hours straight and not eat.
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Beeker
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Joined: Jul 21, 2007
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:24am Post subject: |
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While the steady state ride may have burnt more calories for the actual session - because as you suggest there isn't the same low intensity recovery periods - the interval session has a higher EPOC - excess post-exercise oxygen consumption (also referred to as after burn). Intervals place more stress on the system & requires more recovery to reset the system back to its "normal" state. This recovery is an active process & requires energy to take place.
Losing weight at 1kg per week maybe doable, but I would caution this as inevitably if you try to drive the weightloss too hard you could strip 25-50% of that weight as lean muscle - not good when you are trying to produce more power. The end result is being lighter but also less powerful & thus little change in your power to weight ratio.
I wouldn't get too caught up in calorie counting - it is grossly inaccurate & you spend most of your time being a slave to this process. Some simple rules;
- Increase the quality of your food, i.e. eat a very "clean" diet. Cutting out the rubbish foods generally cuts out a large number of kilojoules. And the higher quality replacement foods have typically a higher nutrient density for a lower energy density
- Rebalance your energy intake so that you are eating at least 2/3 of your energy from breakfast to late afternoon & only 1/3 from dinner through to bed time (many people I see are the opposite)
- As a all-park figure (not knowing your training regime), I would have you on ~10000kJ per day on you base energy intake allowing for a bit of weightloss.
- Use the energy density of food as a guide;
<500kJ per 100g - low energy density (usually most fruits/veges)
500 > < 1000kJ - medium energy density
> 1000kJ - high energy density
Try to choose most of your foods from the low/med density selections (except breakfast cereals which are all mostly high).
Drinks are usually concentrated & the likes of juices, sports drinks, etc are all high energy density.
Make sure you refuel adequately after your high intensity sessions (both during & after) but try to include one longer ride (3 hours) where you take nothing onboard during the ride, but still refuel after.
Get your body comp checked to find out exactly how much of your 79kg you can realistically lose.
The meter starts running for anymore advice!! 
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jamesm
Dusty
Joined: May 29, 2007
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:33am Post subject: |
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hey thanks beeker.
yea i had a body comp test done last year which said i had about 11kg of fat. do you think 9kg is realistic or not really? i mean i could lose half of that for gerenal training.. and then prior to the big races at the end of the year try to lose that extra 4.
yea at the moment i am one of those people that eats heaps at night.. cause i train in mornign and night so hungry when i get home.. and then i think i need to eat lots so i have energy for early mornign training... maybe i just need to sleep earlier..
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Beeker
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Joined: Jul 21, 2007
Posts: 2,643
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:36am Post subject: |
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| Grapefruit wrote: | umm are you trying to lose fat or muscle?
greater intensity does not mean your burning more 'fat', it just takes all your glycogen stores first...from what ive read your best way to burn fat is to stay in your zone1 to zone 2 range of your HR, (as you have a HR monitor i assume you know what those are) for long periods of time, ie. 2hours!
.imho. |
Gah!! The body isn't nice & neatly compartmentalised like that. It doesn't have a nice neat fat burning zone that you stick in & draw the reserves off. Easiest way to think of it is as having a total energy pool - if the energy expended is greater than what is being replaced into the pool, then your body will need to make up the difference from somewhere.
True fat burning zones are a myth. They play with percentages but the body doesn't deal with percentages, it deals with absolutes. e.g.
A ride burns 500kJ @ 50% fat = 250kJ from fat
B ride burns 1000kJ @ 25% fat = 250kJ from fat
Under the fat burning myth you would have been better doing ride A due to the 50% contribution from fat.
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Grapefruit
Wrecked
Joined: Feb 27, 2006
Posts: 5,377
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:45am Post subject: |
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wow, so how did the fat-burn myth/HR zones come about then???
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Beeker
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Joined: Jul 21, 2007
Posts: 2,643
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:47am Post subject: |
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| jamesm wrote: | hey thanks beeker.
yea i had a body comp test done last year which said i had about 11kg of fat. do you think 9kg is realistic or not really? i mean i could lose half of that for gerenal training.. and then prior to the big races at the end of the year try to lose that extra 4.
yea at the moment i am one of those people that eats heaps at night.. cause i train in mornign and night so hungry when i get home.. and then i think i need to eat lots so i have energy for early mornign training... maybe i just need to sleep earlier.. |
:Switches meter on:
So you want to get down to ~2kg of fat with a total weight of ~70kg? This puts you at under 3% & probably close to death! So no, 9kg isn't realistic. You should certainly be aiming for under 10%, so an initial goal of losing ~4kg of fat is more realistic.
If you train in the morning - eat in the morning. If you are training in the am & then hardly eating at all, then of course your body is going to be screaming for fuel at the end of the night. If you want to drive to Queenstown, you will need to put fuel in the car before you make the trip not after!
Winter isn't the best time to be reducing your fat levels rapidly while you are still training. I wouldn't even focus on the weight or body fat for now. Just focus on the quality of your food & improving your timing, & on the quality & frequency of your training & see where you are come spring where training volumes increase & you tend to be naturally more active. I'd be surprised if you weren't 50-75% of the way there just doing that.
Going Harry Hardnuts now will just leave you sick before the winter is out & going backwards on the performance front.
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scatter
Evil Temptress
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Joined: Jan 19, 2003
Posts: 7,657
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:47am Post subject: |
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How does anything come about?
Marketing sweetie 
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Beeker
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Joined: Jul 21, 2007
Posts: 2,643
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 9:54am Post subject: |
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| Grapefruit wrote: | | wow, so how did the fat-burn myth/HR zones come about then??? |
Sales pitch to convince the 90% of mongs that think exercise is a four-letter word that if they barely move they can still burn lard off their ever increasing fat esras without breaking into a sweat. That and body builders who are so starved out of their brains that they can only do low intensity anyway.
There are some specific manipulations that can be done to help with fat loss but I certainly wouldn't apply them to cyclists with performance goals. E.g. Women do respond better in terms of fat loss to lower intensity BUT only if the volume/duration is high. But given that many women haven't got the time that this would take (6+ hours per week), then they are better aiming for the intensity too.
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way_downsouth
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Joined: Apr 25, 2003
Posts: 3,340
Location: Trying to slim down in NZ!
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 10:08am Post subject: |
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 Beeker - just a question I have related to what you have said, why is it important to eat more in the mornings to early afternoon as oppossed to anytime during the day?
Obviously you want to match a training session to dietary needs to ensure that you get through it and ensure it is a quality session, but all things being equal, why not eat at night? Energy in, energy out during the day.
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wgtngrl
Full time athlete in 3...2...
Joined: May 31, 2004
Posts: 10,297
Location: Home sweet, cold home
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| Posted: Thu 15th May 10:25am Post subject: |
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You burn less calories while you sleep silly  Calories are more likely to be converted to fat if consumed closer to bed time.
OMG a big legalise cannabis bus just stopped at the traffic lights - WTF!!!
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