Joined: Feb 06, 2002 Posts: 28,340 Location: doing skiddds
Posted: Wed 9th Jul 4:52pm Post subject:
phunk wrote:
Aside from missing my point, my informed ranting comes from time spent researching all manner of transport issue when I worked in the Parliamentary Library.
As for facts and figures, the fact that the ral lines are uneconomic without subsidies makes them a waste of money. If they cannot turn a profit, as the fact that previous owner was going to close most of the lines as they wernt making money even when subsidised by the govt points to.
So we are now going to subsidise them even more, for what gain? Are the trains somehow going to become majically profitable again? How to get all the goods to and from the trains, build more train lines?
With fossil fuels increasing in price at an alarming rate it seems like a good idea to be investing in state-owned, energy efficient transport. If it isn't economic right now it will be soon. It'll be especially good (in terms of reduction in dependance on fossil fuels and for the environment) if they upgrade the lines to allow for electric trains across the entire network. Of course... perhaps it would be a good idea to upgrade power generating capacity before we start powering trains with it
We'll be well and truly kcufed if we run out of oil and have no other way of getting our tihs round the country. I think rail is a gnikcuf good solution to this problem.
With fossil fuels increasing in price at an alarming rate it seems like a good idea to be investing in state-owned, energy efficient transport. If it isn't economic right now it will be soon.
Thats the point, its not energy efficient and it never will be economic.
The road network is not cost neutral either - we don`t try and run the State Highway system at a profit. If we did, I`d imagine there`d be a huge modal shift away from road transport. Perhaps we should try it and see how the freight gets moved around? The way things are going, the roads will either be subsidised or the tax take will have to be bumped up to fund maintenance and new capital works.
Joined: Aug 15, 2003 Posts: 16,541 Location: Opawa
Posted: Thu 10th Jul 7:28am Post subject:
phunk wrote:
Thats the point, its not energy efficient and it never will be economic.
It would be economic if the lines were open to competition, By say letting straight freight, main freight and fontera to run their own trains.
Fontera built a distribution center on a rail siding in Hamilton to allow it, but there isn't the trains available to use it. They wanted to train raw milk to the processing plant near Timaru, but they won't put the 10km of lines in.
Joined: Dec 25, 2001 Posts: 33,829 Location: Liberty City
Posted: Thu 10th Jul 9:46am Post subject:
Slim wrote:
phunk wrote:
Thats the point, its not energy efficient and it never will be economic.
It would be economic if the lines were open to competition, By say letting straight freight, main freight and fontera to run their own trains.
Fontera built a distribution center on a rail siding in Hamilton to allow it, but there isn't the trains available to use it. They wanted to train raw milk to the processing plant near Timaru, but they won't put the 10km of lines in.
Our neighbour works for one of the major house moving companies and they use trains as much as possible. They'd use the trains more if there was more tracks/ trains out there and from the sound of things a lot of other companies are in the same boat.
As Mr Logger said the trucking companies will still have business from rail depot to delivery and trains can carry way more stuff for less $$$$. Realistically the cost of capital investment in rail is too great to be carried by a private company so if the Government has to step in and fix things up then so be it.
However like many people on here (I guess) while I think the government should retain the ownership/ management of major infrastructure it should put the running/ maintaining of it to private companies/ contractors. The idea of competing infrastructure in a country like New Zealand is ridiculous (let's build an alternative to SH1 as competition - YFY!) but that doesn't mean the companies tendering for maintaining/ building/ running the infrastructure can't compete with each other.
Joined: May 25, 2004 Posts: 11,398 Location: V8 Street Race NZ
Posted: Thu 10th Jul 3:41pm Post subject:
Slim wrote:
phunk wrote:
Thats the point, its not energy efficient and it never will be economic.
It would be economic if the lines were open to competition, By say letting straight freight, main freight and fontera to run their own trains.
Fontera built a distribution center on a rail siding in Hamilton to allow it, but there isn't the trains available to use it. They wanted to train raw milk to the processing plant near Timaru, but they won't put the 10km of lines in.
10km or 1,000km
I'm sure timaru is a few more then 10km away
I'm guessing some of those smaller towns will end up getting there Freezing works, Dairy factories, sawmills etc... back with the rising cost of fuel. It would be far easier shipping a final product, instead of mass amounts of raw product hundreds (sometimes thousands) of kms to one location.
Joined: Feb 23, 2005 Posts: 6,601 Location: churchur
Posted: Thu 10th Jul 4:00pm Post subject:
The clandeboye (Timaru is the closest city) milk/cheese plant will be about 10km from the main trunk line that runs from Chch to Dunedin... so they would probably only need about 10km of new track put in.
Look at the Hawea milk plant. They are putting milk on the train in the Hawkes bay and getting it across to the taranaki. Heck of a lot better to have one or two trains a day than 100 trucks running from one side of the island to the other!!
Joined: May 25, 2004 Posts: 11,398 Location: V8 Street Race NZ
Posted: Thu 10th Jul 4:17pm Post subject:
inzane wrote:
The clandeboye (Timaru is the closest city) milk/cheese plant will be about 10km from the main trunk line that runs from Chch to Dunedin... so they would probably only need about 10km of new track put in.
Look at the Hawea milk plant. They are putting milk on the train in the Hawkes bay and getting it across to the taranaki. Heck of a lot better to have one or two trains a day than 100 trucks running from one side of the island to the other!!
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