Joined: May 22, 2005 Posts: 2,805 Location: Tauranga
Posted: Tue 24th Jun 6:04pm Post subject: Hho Conversion
I saw it on either Campbell Live or Close up with some hicks down in Christchurch had made there old Falcon or Fairmont into an HHO Hybrid. Seperating Oxygen and Hydrogen from Water and using the Hydrogen to mix with the Fuel using it more effectively.. Im quietly suspicious but intrigued to do this..
Joined: May 29, 2005 Posts: 9,624 Location: New Plymouth
Posted: Tue 24th Jun 6:29pm Post subject: RE: Hho Conversion
r_s wrote:
I saw it on either Campbell Live or Close up with some hicks down in Christchurch had made there old Falcon or Fairmont into an HHO Hybrid. Seperating Oxygen and Hydrogen from Water and using the Hydrogen to mix with the Fuel using it more effectively.. Im quietly suspicious but intrigued to do this..
Have helped one of the other guys at work build a big version of it and put it into his car, and also my best mates dad made one for one of their cars. Works a treat and very easy to do if you are mechanically minded
Joined: Mar 03, 2003 Posts: 5,624 Location: Oldpeoplesville
Posted: Tue 24th Jun 7:47pm Post subject:
Oli wrote:
I know someone about to do this also. He knows a few people already up and running, despite the uninformed scepticism.
Can injecting water into an engine improve mileage? YES, the technology has been kicking around since at least WW2, but it was doing something completely different to what these new age quacks claim.
Joined: Nov 10, 2006 Posts: 1,932 Location: Rocking into Mordor on me mighty steed...his name is Fluffy
Posted: Wed 25th Jun 9:02pm Post subject: Rome Fell Because It Got Stupid And Lazy
For those that don't know, the other night there was a thing on Campbell Live about how some people were using electrolysis powered by the engines generator to create hydrogen, which is then feed back into the engine. The proponents were claiming between 20-30% improvement in fuel economy.
These claims are, simply put, bulltihs. Here comes the science:
There are three laws which govern energy and how it's moved around - the laws of thermodynamics. Without going all mathy, they are:
1) Energy cannot be created or destroyed.
2) Entropy, a measure of disorder in a system, will increase until it reaches equilibrium.
3) The amount of entropy in a system will approach a minimum value as the system approaches absolute zero.
Or, more succinctly:
1) You don't get something for nothin'
2) tihs happens...
3) ....unless it's too cold
This system is trying to break the first law by completely ignoring the losses in the system. Here's how the electrolytic process in this situation works:
water + electricity => hydrogen + oxygen + heat lost to the surroundings
The heat component here is an unrecoverable loss, meaning that the electrolysis unit actually is a burden on the engine.
But perhaps the tiny amount of hydrogen produced does miraculously improve the thermal efficiency of the engine? It doesn't, unless you are pumping in a tihsLOAD of hydrogen compared to what these pathetic units can produce, and even then to do that you are generating an EVEN BIGGER tihsLOAD of heat to do so.
A good article with a bit of maths in it for those interested can be found here:
Then, there is the obvious. If something as simple as this could improve your car's economy by 30%, it would be installed in the factory for a lot less than these fraudsters are sucking out of people. GM, Chrysler and Honda have spent tens of millions on research into displacement on demand (shutting down cylinders at the lights) for a measly 7% reduction in fuel consumption!
What was the most infuriating thing about this was the attitude of the journalist who was reporting the “story”. They had a complete and total apathy towards the expert - a professor of Mechanical Engineering for godsake - and the fact that he used science to prove these great pioneering kiwi do-it-your-selfers wrong. But then, where’s the story in that? These guys were following in the great kiwi tradition – sticking it to the man to save the world! All the things John Campbell loves! Journalistic integrity be damned!
I’ll be the first to admit that thermodynamics is a bit of a dry subject, but science doesn’t lie. Campbell Live in this instance has completely failed in it’s duty to correctly report on something by taking the Fox News approach to “fair and balanced” reporting. They found something that was of interest to the shows producers, concentrated on the points they wanted you to hear and gave lip service to the inconvenient truth.
Campbell Live should have been reporting a story on how some dodgy wrench monkeys were preying on people suffering from high prices at the pump using pseudo-science and bad engineering. Instead, John Campbell practically fellated these gnikcuf half wits on national television.
I hope Fair Go uses clips from this story extensively when it goes after these kcufers. Thank god Sainso isn’t such a tree-hugging hippy moron.
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