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sifter
Moving forward
Joined: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 10,687
Location: Wellington
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 Posted: Tue 24th Jun 10:24am Post subject: |
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Inflation corrected?
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phunk
Mangled
Joined: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 12,029
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 10:29am Post subject: |
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| Tama wrote: | | phunk wrote: | | Quote: | | I'm sure some government spending is wasteful (as is some private spending) |
Explain? |
That private companies in a competitive environment are just as capable of ssiping money against a wall as government agencies in a non-competitive environment  |
Making bad investment decisions is not even on the same page as govt spending. Its their money to do with as they please. Each transaction in a private trade is beneficial to both parties - which increases both parties value, hence the reason for the trade.
Govts spend money taken from someone who produced it. Any spending they do is inherently more wasteful than leaving the money with the entity that earnt it.
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dhroadie
Flogged
Joined: Sep 26, 2006
Posts: 2,206
Location: hardly anywhere
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 10:30am Post subject: |
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| jeremyb wrote: | | dhroadie wrote: | | jeremyb wrote: | | I heard $1 billion extra put into health a year or so ago and less operations were done as a result |
Not true
Anyway, that's like saying "an extra $1b was put into the police last year and the road toll's gone up". One does not equal the other. |
Figures?? If I put an extra billion into policing and this does not produce better results, someone should be accountable for that! And it shouldn't be the bobby on the street! |
Yeah but what I'm saying is it's a small part of the health system, just as the road toll is a small part of policing.
Being selective in what you're looking at helps nobody, and tipping money at something on Monday doesn't produce better results by Tuesday.
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Jono
High grade mental defective
Joined: Dec 25, 2001
Posts: 7,757
Location: Wellytron
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 10:36am Post subject: |
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| jeremyb wrote: | | Figures?? If I put an extra billion into policing and this does not produce better results, someone should be accountable for that! And it shouldn't be the bobby on the street! |
But that is why health is a bad example. New treatments, and peoples expectations for life will always mean that there is not enough money in the system. Whilst spending in primary health care and social engineering ("kids don't need soft drinks - feed them water and juice" - that sort of thing) can lower requirements for spending in secondary (hospitals etc), it's not going to stop things like people needing kidney transplants or grandmothers needing new hips.
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hickie
Back to the Jungle...
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
Posts: 1,972
Location: Down the Hutt
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 10:43am Post subject: |
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| Tama wrote: | | phunk wrote: | | Quote: | | I'm sure some government spending is wasteful (as is some private spending) |
Explain? |
That private companies in a competitive environment are just as capable of ssiping money against a wall as government agencies in a non-competitive environment |
The market tends to weed out the worst of the first and voters tend to weed out the governments in charge of the worst of the second....
Now what are those polls saying at the moment?
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Jono
High grade mental defective
Joined: Dec 25, 2001
Posts: 7,757
Location: Wellytron
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 10:47am Post subject: |
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| hickie wrote: | The market tends to weed out the worst of the first and voters tend to weed out the governments in charge of the worst of the second....
Now what are those polls saying at the moment? |
Hmm...I'm not so sure about the first part of your statement. The parent of the bank that I used to work for had an $800M writedown on a software investment that was implemented to "save" money across the company. I didn't see their share price or market share change at all as a result of this...
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hickie
Back to the Jungle...
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
Posts: 1,972
Location: Down the Hutt
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 11:10am Post subject: |
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Can't of been the worst then Jono......
I would have thought it was standard industry practice in the banking industry (amongst others) to spend heaps on IT projects that go nowhere, I know Databank in it's day did a couple of clunker projects 
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Jono
High grade mental defective
Joined: Dec 25, 2001
Posts: 7,757
Location: Wellytron
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 12:20pm Post subject: |
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But there is a real perception within the media and populace in general that "government spending = wasteful" and "private sector is more intelligent with spending" which is so not true.
In my experience, the public servants working in government departments really do want to make the country a better place, and definitely don't spend as if it's not their money. After all, telling departments "no" is what Treasury is there for.
My wife had a story (from when she was working at treasury) about how a colleague had told bill birch that a $70k difference was "an insignificant rounding error", and mr birch had responded that "it is insignificant when you don't notice it missing in your pay packet"
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jeremyb
BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 32,860
Location: Derailled
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 12:54pm Post subject: |
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| Jono wrote: | But there is a real perception within the media and populace in general that "government spending = wasteful" and "private sector is more intelligent with spending" which is so not true.
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Private sector is accountable to their shareholders tho' and the public sector to the tax payers, we haven't seen much, if any of that from the labour govt, I guess the tax payers will make their point at the next election 
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barcode
Thrashed
Joined: May 14, 2006
Posts: 1,872
Location: Rolling across your bonnet, very probably
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 1:27pm Post subject: |
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You say that like the masses know what's good for them.
Winston for PM 
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hickie
Back to the Jungle...
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
Posts: 1,972
Location: Down the Hutt
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 1:43pm Post subject: |
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It's never the civil servants that make the bad decisions, it the pollies above that do that....
Case in point, working for families:
tax everyone heaps, pay the poor civil servants to put up with the whims of the pollies and send them off to conference in second rate locations, then hand back a slice of the tax to those deemed worthy by the pollies of the day.....
the sensible way:
take less tax off everyone, hire less civil servants to suffer at the hands of the pollies and let people make their own decissions on how to live their lives and not unduly influence them to have kids they don't want but feel the need to be better off....
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happybaboon
...SHAFT! You're damn right...
Joined: Feb 06, 2002
Posts: 28,234
Location: doing skiddds
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 1:50pm Post subject: RE: Re: Interesting Article About Government Spending |
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| hickie wrote: | | Labour by their nature concentrate more on redistributing the pie rather than growing the pie and they were just lucky to inherit a growing pie. |
Fail.
Labour Governments make pie via sensible investments (super fund, buying back the railways, buying Air NZ...). National governments then sell the pie to the Japanese and Americans for ridiculously low prices in order to fund tax cuts for the wealthy.
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phunk
Mangled
Joined: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 12,029
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 1:52pm Post subject: |
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hickie
Back to the Jungle...
Joined: Nov 09, 2005
Posts: 1,972
Location: Down the Hutt
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 1:58pm Post subject: RE: Re: Re: Interesting Article About Government Spending |
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| happybaboon wrote: | | hickie wrote: | | Labour by their nature concentrate more on redistributing the pie rather than growing the pie and they were just lucky to inherit a growing pie. |
Fail.
Labour Governments make pie via sensible investments (super fund, buying back the railways, buying Air NZ...). National governments then sell the pie to the Japanese and Americans for ridiculously low prices in order to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. |
super funds: buy lots of pie then mush it all together only to then cut it all up, better hope they don't mix the flavors....
railways: stale pie, good foe the dumper out back, so rather than having you cake and eating it it's more a case of buying you pie and not....
air nz: a divided pie who's price goes up and down like a yo-yo
don't see much growing going on in that lot.....
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jeremyb
BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 32,860
Location: Derailled
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| Posted: Tue 24th Jun 2:10pm Post subject: |
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Super fund, something thats making a great loss at the moment...
Railways, something you sell then have to buy back cause you realise you're kcocs...
AirNZ, never ending pit of bailouts...
Great stuff Labour!!
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