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| Which bit of New Zealand's infrastructure needs the most help? |
| Electricity network |
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21% |
[ 9 ] |
| Telecommunications/ Interwebby |
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16% |
[ 7 ] |
| Urban roading |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Intercity/ rural roading |
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7% |
[ 3 ] |
| Rail network |
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16% |
[ 7 ] |
| Waste processing |
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4% |
[ 2 ] |
| Oil storage/ distribution |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Water storage/ distribution |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Singletrack/ cycling network |
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21% |
[ 9 ] |
| Other (please comment) |
|
7% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 42 |
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Vinnie
Wrecked
Joined: May 02, 2002
Posts: 4,375
Location: Oamaru
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 Posted: Fri 16th May 11:08pm Post subject: |
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| Datsane wrote: | | Vinnie wrote: | | Datsane wrote: |  Vinnie |
Agreeance or sarcasm? I can't tell anymore, too many beers.  |
I'm with you on this one.
They'll moan if thier power gets cut off and they moan when people try to fix the problem. |
Ahh good. I thought that might have been the case.
But I do agree that they would moan about anything. I really believe that there are people out there with far too much time on their hands, and this is how they choose to spend it. 
Next thing they will be complaining about TV ads. 
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CrustyMTB
Wrecked
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 4,314
Location: Back in the Hood
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| Posted: Sat 17th May 5:11am Post subject: |
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| Vinnie wrote: | | Datsane wrote: | | Vinnie wrote: | | Datsane wrote: | | Vinnie |
Agreeance or sarcasm? I can't tell anymore, too many beers. |
I'm with you on this one.
They'll moan if thier power gets cut off and they moan when people try to fix the problem. |
Ahh good. I thought that might have been the case.
But I do agree that they would moan about anything. I really believe that there are people out there with far too much time on their hands, and this is how they choose to spend it.
Next thing they will be complaining about TV ads. |
Project aqua should have been built, anyone who argues that land which was burnt and then farmed heavily for 150 years is "unspoilt" (like quartz hill for instance) is a gnikcuf idiot.
But then again anyone who complains about blackouts while installing a heat pump and buying a 705 inch tele is also a gnikcuf idiot.
This logic also applies to people who commute one person per car in the Aucks and Welli and complain about congestion.
There are many gnikcuf idiots out there, whose bright idea was universal suffrage...
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j2hyde
Flogged
Joined: Sep 23, 2005
Posts: 3,392
Location: saving the world
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| Posted: Sat 17th May 11:36am Post subject: |
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People who think the energy security problem will be solved by cutting back power consumption and increasing efficency are dreaming. It's not just generation that's at capacity, transmission is also at capacity and theres no redundancy in the system to account for the inevitable problems. But if a near majority of misanthropic knawers want to kcuf the economy and in the process their own future quality of life "cause it might make the hills we already cleared and overgrazed look uglier" then good for them. The funniest bit is, the only solution in the short term is to burn coal.
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philstar
Thrashed
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 1,522
Location: Auckland, Mt eden
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| Posted: Sat 17th May 3:28pm Post subject: |
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| CrustyMTB wrote: | | Project aqua should have been built, anyone who argues that land which was burnt and then farmed heavily for 150 years is "unspoilt" (like quartz hill for instance) is a gnikcuf idiot.. |
I agree that most of the wind farms should not be stopped ( bearing head is the exception), but river eco systems are not just about the farmland around them, the environmental damage from hydropower is almost as bead as coal. but realistically we need more power or less people to consume it. Remember that a 50% reduction in our population and we would get all our power from renewable resources  .
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mudguard
Flogged
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 2,754
Location: Auckland's North Shore
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| Posted: Sat 17th May 7:51pm Post subject: |
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| philstar wrote: | | the environmental damage from hydropower is almost as bead as coal.. |
Eh? What's so bad about hydro? Apart from dropping several million tonnes of concrete into the ground?
The Clutha valley wasn't exactly scenic before hand, and yes it's on a fault line. But it's not like it was some pretty woodland that's now drowned.
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philstar
Thrashed
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 1,522
Location: Auckland, Mt eden
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| Posted: Sat 17th May 8:21pm Post subject: |
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| mudguard wrote: | | philstar wrote: | | the environmental damage from hydropower is almost as bead as coal.. |
Eh? What's so bad about hydro? Apart from dropping several million tonnes of concrete into the ground?
The Clutha valley wasn't exactly scenic before hand, and yes it's on a fault line. But it's not like it was some pretty woodland that's now drowned. |
its not the scenic value, a better word would be ecological rather than environmental.
and then there is the other side of some objections that people use rivers as recreational areas and dams will interfere with this (though they do create new recreational activities too.
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CrustyMTB
Wrecked
Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 4,314
Location: Back in the Hood
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| Posted: Sun 18th May 5:34am Post subject: |
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| philstar wrote: | | mudguard wrote: | | philstar wrote: | | the environmental damage from hydropower is almost as bead as coal.. |
Eh? What's so bad about hydro? Apart from dropping several million tonnes of concrete into the ground?
The Clutha valley wasn't exactly scenic before hand, and yes it's on a fault line. But it's not like it was some pretty woodland that's now drowned. |
its not the scenic value, a better word would be ecological rather than environmental.
and then there is the other side of some objections that people use rivers as recreational areas and dams will interfere with this (though they do create new recreational activities too. |
I guess the question is whether the damage done by management under a hydro scheme where conservation measures have a budget (Pukaki is the best example) is less damaging than ad-hoc management at the whim of the DOC budget. I suspect it's about even.
On the transmission front, I say the NIMBY's can go get kcufed. The need for upgrades in the transmission system has been getting increasingly urgent since de-regulation. A victory for the market model, eh?!?
Will the idiots who carried out the botched de-reg do more of the same after October?
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Vinnie
Wrecked
Joined: May 02, 2002
Posts: 4,375
Location: Oamaru
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| Posted: Sun 18th May 12:02pm Post subject: |
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Before deregulation, everything was peachy as ECNZ made sure that they were actually planning 10 years ahead for the needs of the country.
When they deregulated, everyone sat on their hands and did nothing for a long time, then all of a sudden realised we'd need something soon and after all the idiots got stuck in and denied building of such things, its put us further and further behind
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avantibill
bugging Oli avatar
Joined: Nov 20, 2005
Posts: 2,156
Location: Dunners
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| Posted: Sun 18th May 12:35pm Post subject: |
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Before we go popping wind-farms down here (Otago) to supply the bright lights of Auckland, (I am NOT against wind-farms or Aucklanders, just suggesting alternatives) I am surprised that solar panels for home water heating is not encouraged (say a subsidy to make it affordable for the average home owner) The average household appliance are more energy efficient than a few years ago, eg 20 watt bulbs giving the same output of light as the 100 watt incandescent bulb, LCD TVs use less power than the CRT TVs, heat pumps produce three times more heat than the traditional electric heaters.
The other thing, .... | Wikipedia wrote: | The power station has a capacity of four 120 MW francis turbines (for a total of 480MW), but is only allowed to run 432 MW due to resource consent conditions. The dam was built such that two further penstocks and turbines could be installed, but as of 2007 there are no plans to do so.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clyde_Dam
That would be a simple solution to gain an extra 240 MW
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jeremyb
BRAP BRAP BRAP BRAP
Joined: Jan 12, 2003
Posts: 32,136
Location: Derailled
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| Posted: Sun 18th May 12:37pm Post subject: |
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| mudguard wrote: | | philstar wrote: | | the environmental damage from hydropower is almost as bead as coal.. |
Eh? What's so bad about hydro? Apart from dropping several million tonnes of concrete into the ground?
The Clutha valley wasn't exactly scenic before hand, and yes it's on a fault line. But it's not like it was some pretty woodland that's now drowned. |
Hydro dams generate a ton of methane from rotting vegetation just below the water surface
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avantibill
bugging Oli avatar
Joined: Nov 20, 2005
Posts: 2,156
Location: Dunners
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| Posted: Sun 18th May 12:44pm Post subject: |
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| jeremyb wrote: | | Hydro dams generate a ton of methane from rotting vegetation just below the water surface |
Harness the methane from that and the cows from all the dairy farms springing up everywhere, that will solve the fossil fuel issue 
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herbman
Flogged
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 3,528
Location: the alexs, the land that time forgot
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| Posted: Sun 18th May 1:41pm Post subject: |
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| mudguard wrote: | | philstar wrote: | | the environmental damage from hydropower is almost as bead as coal.. |
Eh? What's so bad about hydro? Apart from dropping several million tonnes of concrete into the ground?
The Clutha valley wasn't exactly scenic before hand, and yes it's on a fault line. But it's not like it was some pretty woodland that's now drowned. |
really?
IMOH it was a rather nice road to drive. as there was lot going on. with the low rock wall to stop cars crashing onto the railway line and in the the river, some of the best land in new zealand for growing summerfruits (would have as been a great spot for organics)
just cause it was not wood land doesn't mean that it was not pretty.
you mite not have the age or have been down this way to really know what it was like before the dam was even started.
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Kyle
Wrecked
Joined: Mar 03, 2003
Posts: 5,597
Location: Oldpeoplesville
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| Posted: Sun 18th May 1:42pm Post subject: |
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| avantibill wrote: | | ... LCD TVs use less power than the CRT TVs... |
LCD's use less power than an equivalently sized CRT, however because our TV's are so much bigger than what they were 20 years ago, the average TV power consumption has gone up.
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mudguard
Flogged
Joined: Jul 08, 2003
Posts: 2,754
Location: Auckland's North Shore
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| Posted: Sun 18th May 5:48pm Post subject: |
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| herbman wrote: |
you mite not have the age or have been down this way to really know what it was like before the dam was even started. |
Keep you hair on. Cromwell was practically my second home, 10 weeks every summer, 3 weeks every winter, since 1981. I remember the orchards, Lowburn, Old Cromwell and rafting from Tarras to about Cromwell.
With dams there will always be someone who objects. I figured it was as good a place as any, despite the um, faultlines and large cracks.
I was about 8 or 9 when they started filling it.
To JeremyB
And rotting vegatation? Is this for all lakes, or manmade ones? Surely it's rotted by now, or do you mean vegetation that is continually flowing into the lake?
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herbman
Flogged
Joined: May 30, 2003
Posts: 3,528
Location: the alexs, the land that time forgot
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| Posted: Sun 18th May 5:54pm Post subject: |
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| mudguard wrote: | | herbman wrote: |
you mite not have the age or have been down this way to really know what it was like before the dam was even started. |
Keep you hair on. Cromwell was practically my second home, 10 weeks every summer, 3 weeks every winter, since 1981. I remember the orchards, Lowburn, Old Cromwell and rafting from Tarras to about Cromwell.
With dams there will always be someone who objects. I figured it was as good a place as any, despite the um, faultlines and large cracks.
I was about 8 or 9 when they started filling it.
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wasn't to sure how old you were as there are lot of poeple who think thats the way its always been.
to me it was a major loss of great land. and alot of history from the area.
now beaumont is a area that no one would miss.
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