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Fango
Ridden
Joined: Jun 28, 2004
Posts: 218
Location: Wellers
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 Posted: Tue 13th May 9:46am Post subject: |
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| Joel wrote: | CAN basically put themselves in the "fringe no one listens too crazy freaks with beards cycle touring hippy" pile with this press release.
all it does is alienate, so not sure what an earth they are trying to achieve. where is the marketing person for them.. surely they lurk on vorb.. perhaps they can clarify who an earth they are trying to influence... |
But of course deep down, you know they are right - the cost of petrol and diesel will continue to rise and we ultimately have no choice but to change our attitudes and lifestyles eventually - some of us did it ages ago, some more recently and others stay in denial blaming all sorts of things - conveniently the gummint, but we do have to change or else maybe go to war to try to preserve our access to the stuff - or grow biofuels at the expense of others' food resources... It's like Ghandi said - first they laugh at you, then they abuse you, then you win.
Go CAN!
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swtchbckr
Scuffed
Joined: Mar 22, 2005
Posts: 495
Location: Chacha
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 9:51am Post subject: |
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YEP. we've reached peak oil. the prices will fluctuate for a few years, but will always go up up up. CAN are totally right, and you little weeners who are dissing them are totally wrong. get your heads out of your asses and open your eyes. get used to it.
oh, and if you dont like what CAN are saying, dont read it, and dont comment on it. ignore it and it'll go away. NOT
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phunk
Mangled
Joined: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 11,778
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 9:57am Post subject: |
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 So if the cost of petrol and diesel is going to rise, why the extra taxes?
I am dissing the delivery of the message, but nice that you expose your bias in that way. kcidpunk.
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Joel
Wrecked
Joined: Mar 26, 2002
Posts: 5,285
Location: Welly
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 10:08am Post subject: |
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| phunk wrote: | So if the cost of petrol and diesel is going to rise, why the extra taxes?
I am dissing the delivery of the message, but nice that you expose your bias in that way. kcidpunk. |
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philstar
Thrashed
Joined: Mar 05, 2006
Posts: 1,525
Location: Auckland, Mt eden
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 10:24am Post subject: |
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| phunk wrote: | So if the cost of petrol and diesel is going to rise, why the extra taxes?
I am dissing the delivery of the message, but nice that you expose your bias in that way. kcidpunk. |
I would have thought you would be in favour of voluntary/optional taxes 
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phunk
Mangled
Joined: Feb 28, 2004
Posts: 11,778
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 10:26am Post subject: |
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A voluntary tax?
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Bigfoot
Mangled
Joined: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 23,767
Location: The distant future - the year 2000. (Canada)
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 10:26am Post subject: |
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thorg
Gozzies: the new black
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 12,707
Location: Looking for gozzies - have you seen any?
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 10:28am Post subject: |
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when goods are made using these fuels, and transported using theses fuels - how is the tax optional unless you dont buy anything 
no - its just CAN jumping on top of a very high moral point, and then slipping and getting that point rammed right up their collective. . . 
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neels
Slightly below average
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 854
Location: Waiting for the great leap forward
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 10:31am Post subject: |
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They're right that the price of oil is going to keep going up, but the tax approach is a bit short sighted I would have thought.
If you add further cost to fuel, you also add that cost to everything, so you punish everybody including cyclists.
I would have thought that the other idea that is doing the rounds at the moment of direct charging for road usage would be more effectively targeted.
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musket
Mangled
Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 8,292
Location: Transient
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 12:32pm Post subject: |
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| neels wrote: | They're right that the price of oil is going to keep going up, but the tax approach is a bit short sighted I would have thought.
If you add further cost to fuel, you also add that cost to everything, so you punish everybody including cyclists.
I would have thought that the other idea that is doing the rounds at the moment of direct charging for road usage would be more effectively targeted. |
That argument doesn't hold either - alcohol,fuel and cigarettes are taxed to deter their consumption. Doesn't mean that bread and milk should be taxed more heavily.
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neels
Slightly below average
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 854
Location: Waiting for the great leap forward
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 12:47pm Post subject: |
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If you charge more for the fuel for the tractors, factory machinery & transport vehicles, that will get passed on in the cost of the final product. So everybody pays. If you tax individual road usage, only the actual user pays.
As for alcohol & cigarettes, I'm pretty sure neither of them are used in making bread and milk., I would have thought they would be classified as non-essential products so you choose to pay the tax if you choose to buy them.
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thorg
Gozzies: the new black
Joined: May 20, 2004
Posts: 12,707
Location: Looking for gozzies - have you seen any?
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 12:58pm Post subject: |
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alcohol - nonessential 
repent heathen 
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neels
Slightly below average
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 854
Location: Waiting for the great leap forward
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 1:02pm Post subject: |
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| thorg wrote: | alcohol - nonessential
repent heathen |
You can live without it.
The question is why would you want to
Oh, and pass me another beer thanks.
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musket
Mangled
Joined: Sep 28, 2002
Posts: 8,292
Location: Transient
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 1:06pm Post subject: |
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| neels wrote: | If you charge more for the fuel for the tractors, factory machinery & transport vehicles, that will get passed on in the cost of the final product. So everybody pays. If you tax individual road usage, only the actual user pays.
As for alcohol & cigarettes, I'm pretty sure neither of them are used in making bread and milk., I would have thought they would be classified as non-essential products so you choose to pay the tax if you choose to buy them. |
I wonder how much alcohol contributes to the economy?
There are ways dealing with farm / production costs of fuel tax, that don't make it unworkable. I do agree taxing users is a method that can work (look to asia where car rego is huge).
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neels
Slightly below average
Joined: Sep 05, 2007
Posts: 854
Location: Waiting for the great leap forward
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| Posted: Tue 13th May 1:16pm Post subject: |
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| musket wrote: | | I do agree taxing users is a method that can work (look to asia where car rego is huge). |
But then there's no incentive, you're already paying the registration anyway so why not use the car. And why should I pay more rego on my 4 vehicles when I can only drive one at a time, it's a deterrent from owning them not from using them
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