Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby istepinyards on Sat 22/May/10 10:53pm

Just out of interest are they a non for profit charity?

Sorry to the OP I was just wondering and Oli and FW are googles friends tonight :p

Oh and FW almost a nice coverup but no not quite :D
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Sat 22/May/10 11:00pm

fatwombat wrote:That's an excellent article Oli, full marks for your research. I would say that this article supports my description of it, I've extracted some quotes below (with the page number).

If you guys think "Christian organisation" is a good thing, that's terrific, we're all on the same page - I think WV is great, and I believe that Christian values can make a better society. But sadly, in a lot of places I've worked, "Christian organisation" was almost a euphemism for "American spy network" or "Western cultural imperialist propaganda organisation". And sadly, that was pretty true for many of the organisations that liked to define themselves primarily as "Christian organisation".

P2
The Problem of Careerism
Given their mainstream credibility and ecumenical outlook, some have questioned whether World Vision's passion for Christ has been diluted. These concerns are difficult to address, considering the 22,000 staff and great local variations from country to country (or even within countries).
One Asian church leader told me that in his country, "they are so large and their salaries are so much higher than those of [other] Christian organizations that many of the staff—I would say the majority—are there for the money." World Vision pays employees reasonable local salaries, which may mean paying better than the local church. Friction comes when talented people leave other Christian work to join World Vision.
P3
Hirsch says the organization often takes on young professionals who "love Jesus but don't know the Bible." They come from a wide variety of traditions, from Pentecostal to Orthodox, which complicates the task of helping them to grow. They have different vocabularies of faith, from glossolalia to incense.
P4
A cluster meeting convenes in a church: tin roof, cement floor, simple aqua-painted benches. The group is called Mayatima, or "orphans." Though they meet in a church, and most of them probably belong to a church, the group is not based on faith. Rather, it is open to anyone concerned for children affected by AIDS.
P6
Bob Pierce could have said that. But World Vision operates on a wider field than Pierce dreamed of, with a far more diverse set of partners. Its ethos is ecumenical, pragmatic, professional, and utterly confident, whether interacting with the church or with government. Other Christian relief and development organizations are undoubtedly similar, but none operates on this scale or with this level of influence.


Shut up now. You were wrong. Deal with it. :D
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby Oli on Sat 22/May/10 11:09pm

I've only got one quote from the article:

World Vision has become one of the largest Christian organizations in the world


No one ever said it some kind of 100% pure Christian organisation, but you said,

I don't think World Vision is a bible-based organisation.


which an organisation with the founding mission statement of, "to follow our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in working with the poor and oppressed to promote human transformation, seek justice and bear witness to the good news of the Kingdom of God." patently is.
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby fatwombat on Sat 22/May/10 11:21pm

No, it's a Christian semantic thing - "bible based" means fundamentalist. WV is "ethos based". But putting the semantics aside, it's clear we're actually saying the same thing about WV so that's nice. :)
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby Oli on Sat 22/May/10 11:39pm

Good grief. :blink:
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby Oli on Sat 22/May/10 11:40pm

Sounds more like a Fatwombat semantics issue... :D
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby istepinyards on Sat 22/May/10 11:42pm

Even I thought I was wrong once. It turns out I was just mistaken but the same principles apply here
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby nostromo on Sat 22/May/10 11:52pm

istepinyards wrote:Even I thought I was wrong once. It turns out I was just mistaken but the same principles apply here

If you weren't wrong the first time, but thought your were but then found you weren't..somewhere in there I'd say you'd been wrong :exclaim:
Once is OK
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby bubbaa on Sat 22/May/10 11:57pm

My vote - FW wrong - clearly is a Christian organisation. However I have to agree that there is a vast variety of Christians out there some of who are fundy wankers and some of whoom are very cool people who do good shit and don't preach. fair enough - But FW you do have to admit the evidence presented is fairly clear that WV is a christian based organisation - it almost seems that paradoxically you are saying it isn't christian because it does good stuff!. :lol:
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby znomit on Sat 22/May/10 11:59pm

Was a while ago but I'm sure when we were forced to do this at school we were constantly reminded of Jebus and his 40 day weight loss plan.

Heres another that I would love to hand some of my hard earned cash to but wont
http://www.tearfund.co.nz/
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby bubbaa on Sun 23/May/10 12:07am

znomit wrote:Was a while ago but I'm sure when we were forced to do this at school we were constantly reminded of Jebus and his 40 day weight loss plan.

Heres another that I would love to hand some of my hard earned cash to but wont
http://www.tearfund.co.nz/


I'm definitely willing to donate lots to a 40 day famine! :blink:
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby fatwombat on Sun 23/May/10 1:15am

bubbaa wrote:My vote - FW wrong - clearly is a Christian organisation. However I have to agree that there is a vast variety of Christians out there some of who are fundy wankers and some of whoom are very cool people who do good shit and don't preach. fair enough - But FW you do have to admit the evidence presented is fairly clear that WV is a christian based organisation - it almost seems that paradoxically you are saying it isn't christian because it does good stuff!. :lol:

I do think WVis a Christian organisation. And I do think that's a good thing.
What I've written in my previous posts:
(1) WV is not a bible-based organisation i.e. it wasn't set up to spread Christian dogma;
(2) It was founded by Christians, inspired by Christian values;
(3) I think Christian values are good.

I'm not sure why I've given the impression that I don't think it's a Christian org. I guess what I'm trying to say is that BEING a Christian organisation is a good thing; but BEING LABELLED a "Christian" organisation is sometimes, in some countries, a bad thing. All my talk about semantics and "bible-based" was to make the point that WV is the good sort of Christian org, not the bad sort. That's why I kept saying that Oli and I are in agreement about WV. I would say the same things about the Salvation Army or the St Vincent de Paul Society - set up by Christians to show Christian charity, they accept and help people because those people have needs, not because the needy people accept a particular doctrine.

Maybe if I'd always lived in NZ it wouldn't occur to me that a Christian org could be bad, but in Asian countries, Muslim countries, many Eastern European and Mediterranean countries, that is the general perception.
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby Fraser on Sun 23/May/10 6:01am

Where does this money actually go? No seriously the trillions that have been sent to Africa over the years via these charities, when you go there and try and find where it actually goes it is all a bit vauge. :eh:
Closer to home so to speak, the millions that were donated to Thailand and SE Asia with the Tsunami relief. When you go there, they are also asking "Where the money has gone?"
I gave up giving people begging money, I just asked them what they wanted and I would buy it instead.

Rather than try and quantify a world wide church organisation

What has your local church done for you? The one down the road.
banksy-in-africa-5.jpg
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby Oli on Sun 23/May/10 12:19pm

Bible-based quite simply means based on a doctrine of Christianity, it doesn't have some mysterious delineation of actually having to convert people. If we're agreeing why can't you just say that they are a bible-based organisation?

To me that has nothing to do with how much good they do, or how much profit they might make, and I am not in the least religious but can still appreciate so-called "Christian values".
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Re: 40 Hr 'famine'

Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Sun 23/May/10 12:40pm

Christians are horrible people.
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