Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby phunk on Mon 4/May/09 8:54pm

Oli wrote:
phunk wrote:
Oli wrote:I put it (that I am a donor) on my license specifically so my organs can be used without anyone else having a choice. How come that isn't enough? No one told me my word wasn't final on this! :angry:

Because once you are dead you then 'belong' to your next of kin and it is their decision.

That's fucking ridiculous! What's the freaking point? I'm OUTRAGED AND FURIOUS! :angry:

Dont get too worked up, you might find out the system first hand!
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby WH on Mon 4/May/09 8:56pm

Dunno how to sort it out, but you can see why it happens - someone hears a loved one has karked it, they're probably just hoping for an open casket so they can see them one last time. The last thing they want is to have a doc whip their eyes/heart/spleen out.

The wife and I have discussed it, she knows I want to be chopped up and distributed far and wide if I'm unfortunate enough to shuffle off prematurely. So does she. Fingers crossed we both have the nerve to say yes if we're unfortunate enough to be the one left behind.
WH
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby nzmatto on Mon 4/May/09 8:58pm

Interesting discussion. I have posted a link to organ donors NZ and have asked them for their comments. I will post any response here.

Personally I thought that once it was on your license that was it, fair game. I'd like as much of my body as possible to be used once I have no further use for it.
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby Colin on Mon 4/May/09 9:00pm

I put it on my licence.

I know that it doesn't ensure that organ donation will happen.

I have talked about this with my family in the hope that they are more ready to say "cut away".

Infact asked about it before ticking my licence - I figured that if it ever came to making the decision they were more likely to be way more upset about donating than I would be, but they at least would know how I felt and had time to think about it.
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby DropKick on Mon 4/May/09 9:00pm

faux_name wrote:New Zealand laws favour the rights of the family over the rights of the deceased due to cultural concerns for Maori and Pacific Islanders. The best you can do is tell your family you want your organs to be donated... and hope they get contacted in time.



Thats what I'm saying - why dont they take it as if you say "yes i want to be an organ donor" to include "I've discussed it with my family etc" and when the person comes in the door, their license says go for it - they should just be able to go for it.

I dont think the rights of the family over the deceased for cultural matters really matters - surely if you can somehow mistake "yes, i want to be an organ donor" with "no, ill keep mine thanks" - you're probably not someone whose organs would be worth having anyway :lol:

Its more a discussion of why do they bother with this extra step if the person in question has earlier said yes, theres a massive discrepancy in how many people say id like to, and how many actually do. Not just because of family objection, but more because the family werent able to consent early enough in the piece...

But for those people who do object I raise the likeness to paying tax - we'd all really rather not, but its for the good of greater society...
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby ants06 on Mon 4/May/09 9:02pm

See death actually scares the shit out of me...
due to the afterlife thing Im in trouble cremation or bury me? ....
but Im scared of going in the hole alive....
If the take organs no chance of that ....
but would i be allowed in to the "after life" miss in organs?...

and Im not religious i don't know what to believe , so i can see the issues :(
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby ants06 on Mon 4/May/09 9:04pm

DropKick wrote:
faux_name wrote:New Zealand laws favour the rights of the family over the rights of the deceased due to cultural concerns for Maori and Pacific Islanders. The best you can do is tell your family you want your organs to be donated... and hope they get contacted in time.



Thats what I'm saying - why dont they take it as if you say "yes i want to be an organ donor" to include "I've discussed it with my family etc" and when the person comes in the door, their license says go for it - they should just be able to go for it.


But they should only take internal organs eg no eyes as that i do believe is up to the family
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby Oli on Mon 4/May/09 9:06pm

ants06 wrote:See death actually scares the shit out of me...
due to the afterlife thing Im in trouble cremation or bury me? ....
but Im scared of going in the hole alive....
If the take organs no chance of that ....
but would i be allowed in to the "after life" miss in organs?...

and Im not religious i don't know what to believe , so i can see the issues :(


Don't freak out, but when you're dead you are dead - you don't have anything to worry about. ;)
Oli
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby DropKick on Mon 4/May/09 9:07pm

ants06 wrote:But they should only take internal organs eg no eyes as that i do believe is up to the family


I'm pretty sure with corneal transplants they only take the cornea not the whole eye (ie - you wouldnt be able to tell)

And the other thing is, as I said most viable candidates have come to be in that situation via a MVA, so many arent open casket material anyway...
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby faux_name on Mon 4/May/09 9:08pm

:D
Last edited by faux_name on Thu 27/Mar/14 3:38am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby DropKick on Mon 4/May/09 9:09pm

Oli wrote:
ants06 wrote:See death actually scares the shit out of me...
due to the afterlife thing Im in trouble cremation or bury me? ....
but Im scared of going in the hole alive....
If the take organs no chance of that ....
but would i be allowed in to the "after life" miss in organs?...

and Im not religious i don't know what to believe , so i can see the issues :(


Don't freak out, but when you're dead you are dead - you don't have anything to worry about. ;)



And if not, the guys down in the mortuary have a "back-of-the-head-shovel" for those pesky walk-awayer's
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby shmoodiver on Mon 4/May/09 9:10pm

i find it insensitive to my culture that my rights as a deceased organ donor are being superseded by a concern for the beliefs of another culture.
yes should mean yes, they're my organs if i wanna hand em out then take em before they go stale, if it was against my cultural beliefs then surely i wouldn't be a donor.
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby istepinyards on Mon 4/May/09 9:14pm

Oli wrote:
ants06 wrote:See death actually scares the shit out of me...
due to the afterlife thing Im in trouble cremation or bury me? ....
but Im scared of going in the hole alive....
If the take organs no chance of that ....
but would i be allowed in to the "after life" miss in organs?...

and Im not religious i don't know what to believe , so i can see the issues :(


Don't freak out, but when you're dead you are dead - you don't have anything to worry about. ;)
And even if you do think there is an imaginary friend with holes in his hands and feet I'm pretty sure he be happy to accept you into his McDonalds playland.
If it was actually the case he would have new Santa Cruz bikes for everyone from Wellington and even better bikes for everyone else.

So my summary is
If you believe... he would be happy if you donated.
If you believe and give organs better move away from Wellington because who the fuck wants a Santa Cruz for the rest of eternity
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby WH on Mon 4/May/09 9:15pm

faux_name wrote:I agree, and I'm a donor :thumbsup: But in other cultures it's considered pretty dam disrespectful bordering on evil and disgusting to go taking bits out of dead bodies for ANYTHING. So our laws require that the doctors check the family's beliefs first. Which I can understand, although I would personally prefer that 'donor' on the lisence be consent enough, because obviously the deceased has thought it through at some stage!


But surely if your culture says it's wrong to donate, then you wouldn't tick the box... and what's it got to do with your family? I understand that your family might be upset if you've said yes, because it goes against their beliefs, but if it's not against your beliefs, why shouldn't you be free to donate? This law basically says "It doesn't matter what your beliefs are, once you're dead we'll ask someone else what they believe, and just do that"...
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Re: An Ethical Question About Peoples Insides

Postby shmoodiver on Mon 4/May/09 9:19pm

WH wrote:
faux_name wrote:I agree, and I'm a donor :thumbsup: But in other cultures it's considered pretty dam disrespectful bordering on evil and disgusting to go taking bits out of dead bodies for ANYTHING. So our laws require that the doctors check the family's beliefs first. Which I can understand, although I would personally prefer that 'donor' on the lisence be consent enough, because obviously the deceased has thought it through at some stage!


But surely if your culture says it's wrong to donate, then you wouldn't tick the box... and what's it got to do with your family? I understand that your family might be upset if you've said yes, because it goes against their beliefs, but if it's not against your beliefs, why shouldn't you be free to donate? This law basically says "It doesn't matter what your beliefs are, once you're dead we'll ask someone else what they believe, and just do that"...


it should go the other way too, if you're not a donor and your family says take his spleen they should be able to take it, just the reverse of what s going on now, the dead have no rights so fuckem and take their livers
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