A Different Law For The Police

Postby mark2c on Thu 9/Oct/14 6:36pm

The Independent Police Conduct Authority report out today in summary said the Timaru Police:
* trespassed.
* assaulted with a weapon without adequate justification.
* knowingly committed perjury and attempted to pervert the course of justice (this arises from charging a person with with assault and giving false evidence in court with the full knowledge of prosecutors and their superior officers that this was false (ie video evidence from the taser's camera told a different story).

If it was you, me or Mr Hager we would be changed already (video evidence, knowingly lied etc) and probably in the can.

Instead they've swung into full bureaucrat mode all the Police officers concerned are still at work.

All things considered this is a worry that this and the racism thing and the misogyny stuff just doesn't seem to get taken seriously.

There should be no tolerance for this behaviour - any absolutely none for people who lie while on the witness stand.

The video evidence and the IPCA report should be enough for standing down and charges (stuff their 'employer obligations - this is criminal) but here in NZ it appears the Police are above the law.
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby RugbySucks on Thu 9/Oct/14 6:48pm

When I read the article, it appeared that one officer had resigned, another had apologised in person to the family, and that a full investigation of the police officers remaining, was taking place.
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby philstar on Thu 9/Oct/14 6:51pm

mark2c wrote:knowingly committed perjury and attempted to pervert the course of justice (this arises from charging a person with with assault and giving false evidence in court with the full knowledge of prosecutors and their superior officers that this was false (ie video evidence from the taser's camera told a different story).
There should be no tolerance for this behaviour - any absolutely none for people who lie while on the witness stand.


:withstupid:

trespass and assault is par for the course for the cops, and while I think they take it too far sometimes, it is understandable why the upper management tacitly approve. But perjury is not acceptable specially from a cop :( and should not be condoned. resignation does not cut it :(

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI0EbuXOOHE

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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby mark2c on Thu 9/Oct/14 6:59pm

RugbySucks wrote:When I read the article, it appeared that one officer had resigned, another had apologised in person to the family, and that a full investigation of the police officers remaining, was taking place.


That sounds like the response is OK.

I don't think that is so because neither resignation nor an apology should cut it. This was knowing criminal behaviour with no plausible defences likely.

On National Prog tonight the Police said they were in a employment process and had to be fair. This appears rubbish given the quality of the evidence (taser video) and the utter seriousness of the alleged crime.

It is simply not acceptable for the personnel involved to be still working. The only answer here is that the Police don't consider it to be a problem and they already know what their internal investigation's results will be (we probably do as well).
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby Scotty on Thu 9/Oct/14 7:05pm

mark2c wrote:On National Prog tonight the Police said they were in a employment process and had to be fair. This appears rubbish given the quality of the evidence (taser video) and the utter seriousness of the alleged crime.

You'd be surprised how hard it is to fire someone these days....
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby mark2c on Thu 9/Oct/14 7:34pm

No, I've worked in an HR group. IPCA and video would be entirely justifiable basis for a suspension without pay (misconduct route).
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby philstar on Thu 9/Oct/14 7:35pm

Scotty wrote:
mark2c wrote:On National Prog tonight the Police said they were in a employment process and had to be fair. This appears rubbish given the quality of the evidence (taser video) and the utter seriousness of the alleged crime.

You'd be surprised how hard it is to fire someone these days....


sorry dont know how to link to the thread so quoting
dwgknz wrote:No it's very hard to fire:
a). good staff you don't like
b). bad staff who you haven't given an opportunity to improve
c). staff doing things you haven't made clear to them that are bad
It's pretty easy to fire people who are doing bad things when you told them beforehand that they're bad.
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby Mickyfinn on Thu 9/Oct/14 7:36pm

Yes lets concentrate on one or too ( not insignificant issues- admittedly ) and forget about the crap they have to deal with hundreds of times a day that don't make the news
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby foremannz on Thu 9/Oct/14 8:19pm

After living with cops, I have nothing but pride for what the good ones do to keep everyone safe.
Example, BBQ at home, the cops are all laxing back, shouting and banging starts up across the road - cops grab their badges, go and visit the house, and make sure everythings ok, then come back a little later and continue on with the BBQ. They could have called it in, and let the on duty guys handle it, but they chose to take 15 minutes out of their personal life to ensure others were safe ...
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby happybaboon on Thu 9/Oct/14 8:25pm

Whereas the bad ones were too busy invading the home of a journalist and "witness" to help.
I have a deep respect for most cops. 99% of them are out keeping people safe. They put their lives on the line (and sometimes lose them) to protect other people, which is amazing. But sadly there's some stinking rotten eggs in there, and seemingly very little that can be done about them.

I have zero respect for the IPCA. As a wise elder told me yesterday "The only thing that is an accurate description in the IPCA is Police... That's who they represent."
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby mark2c on Thu 9/Oct/14 8:53pm

Mickyfinn wrote:Yes lets concentrate on one or too ( not insignificant issues- admittedly ) and forget about the crap they have to deal with hundreds of times a day that don't make the news


Given how important it is I don't think the minimalising path should apply.

This is planned and approved lying under oath in court.

Such behaviour undermines both the Police force and the judicial system and can't simply be treated with a wet bus ticket like usual.
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby thelivo on Thu 9/Oct/14 9:07pm

Mickyfinn wrote:Yes lets concentrate on one or too ( not insignificant issues- admittedly ) and forget about the crap they have to deal with hundreds of times a day that don't make the news


That "crap they have to deal with hundreds of times a day" is their job. They HAVE to be held to a higher standard and if they can't then they need to be dealt with appropriately.
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby philstar on Thu 9/Oct/14 9:31pm

Mickyfinn wrote:Yes lets concentrate on one or too ( not insignificant issues- admittedly ) and forget about the crap they have to deal with hundreds of times a day that don't make the news


That is why as I implied earlier you can forgive some of the trespass and assault, but lying in the witness stand is unforgivable. cops rely on being beheld as and upright and honest citizens when giving evidence in court. If one is known to have gotten away with lying with no consequences, more will do so and the whole system collapses into corruption.
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby happybaboon on Thu 9/Oct/14 9:35pm

If one is known to have gotten away with lying with no consequences, more will do so and the whole system collapses into corruption.

Yeah, fairly soon they'll basically be politicians with guns.
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Re: A Different Law For The Police

Postby CrustyMTB on Thu 9/Oct/14 9:44pm

philstar wrote:
Mickyfinn wrote:Yes lets concentrate on one or too ( not insignificant issues- admittedly ) and forget about the crap they have to deal with hundreds of times a day that don't make the news


That is why as I implied earlier you can forgive some of the trespass and assault, but lying in the witness stand is unforgivable. cops rely on being beheld as and upright and honest citizens when giving evidence in court. If one is known to have gotten away with lying with no consequences, more will do so and the whole system collapses into corruption.
Part of the problem is that perjury charges are a matter for consideration by who? The Police of course, they refer it to a crown solicitor but the decision to refer is theirs. While it's no help to the victim in this particular case, if a cop has lied under oath to a judge, he/she will never be able to be in a role where they ever give evidence ever again. Judges talk to each other, have loooooooooooong memories, and take that shit seriously.
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