Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby Derryn Hinch on Wed 20/Mar/13 9:53am

:withstupid:
Magia01 wrote:
great uncle bulgaria wrote:fact: cyclist was killed by over-taking truck.

conclusion: the overtaking was unsafe. ie the driver of the truck did not use sufficient caution for the conditions to ensure safe overtaking

nice troll though ;)


:withstupid:
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby R+P+K on Wed 20/Mar/13 12:32pm

FLATULENTFRIEND wrote:
R+P+K wrote:
Derryn Hinch wrote:At the end of the day isn't the relevant rule 'do not overtake unless safe?'

I think most drivers do not see passing a cyclist as overtaking and so do not apply this rule (principle?).


Agreed.

Plus, we're a nation with a high proportion of f**king terrible drivers.



Terrible drivers :ib: It depends what nation we compare our drivers with. Try the 2/3rds world for another comparison.


http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4162705 ... fatalities

As the leading cause of crashes, poor observation, including driver distraction, inattention and fatigue, needed to be addressed.
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby CrustyMTB on Wed 20/Mar/13 9:38pm

The bit at the end blaming the roads is rich. Cos our roads are worse than the uk? (Get out of the cities and the roads are pretty similar). A large proportion of kiwi drivers are shit, inattentive, distracted and worst of all impatient. Making it harder to get (and to keep) a licence would be a start. Increasing sentences for dangerous driving causing death or injury would be a start. Treat it like misuse of a firearm causing injury/death. Imho.
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby slidecontrol on Wed 20/Mar/13 9:54pm

CrustyMTB wrote: Increasing sentences for dangerous driving causing death or injury would be a start. Treat it like misuse of a firearm causing injury/death. Imho.


I've been advocating that for ages. People will think you're nuts for suggesting it.


[edit], as far as the firearm thing goes, you don't even have to hurt someone/damage anything to get pinged. just scaring someone, even unintentionally will attract some harsh penalties these days. Imagine that applied to cars
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby Simonius_Titius on Wed 20/Mar/13 11:29pm

Hell yes. "Assault with a deadly weapon" conveys a whole different message to "traffic offense".
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby Velocipedestrian on Thu 21/Mar/13 12:08pm

1 - Tonne bludgeoning tool = Deadly weapon.

Who knew?
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby ape on Thu 21/Mar/13 7:37pm

great uncle bulgaria wrote:fact: cyclist was killed by over-taking truck.

conclusion: the overtaking was unsafe. ie the driver of the truck did not use sufficient caution for the conditions to ensure safe overtaking

nice troll though ;)


"was killed by" is bullshit. all we know is died as the result of an interaction with. While the exact mechanics of the event probably aren't especially important to us, and we can probably make assumptions that may well be true, it is also possible (albiet unlikely) that she swerved 2 meters to the right at just the wrong time, due to mechanical failure or any other reason. Save the blame till you've got the facts, if you never get the facts, stick with sympathy.

Whenever a cyclist gets killed a bunch of cyclists jump up and down ranting and raving about how everyone else should change, that roads aren't good enough and how the quality of nz drivers is terrible. Yes, there is room for "them" to improve but equally, we're not much good at looking after ourselves. I regularly see under-confident, unskilled, unaware, overconfident or just plain inconsiderate riders on the road, perhaps we need some formal instruction for us too.

I am alive today due to the actions of motorists, the thousands who have seen me and not driven into me while just driving along, The ones who've jumped on their brakes when I've swerved to avoid car doors that some numpty opened in front of me, the time I overestimated my grip and slid through a free left turn into traffic driving straight through from my right.

There have been plenty of moments that I've been very scared cycling on our roads, some of them were clearly the fault of drivers, some of them seemed like the fault of drivers, but, after a few hours of thinking, I came to the conclusion that I was partially to blame, or at least created a situation that they couldn't be expected to anticipate. There are also some that were completely my fault. All of them would not have happened if I was not there, so I did contribute to the events. Hard that it is to admit, most cyclists (and drivers) do, or have done, something wrong every now and then.

Before you react to an incident that you know very little about bare in mind that until the police have done all their investigation, the only facts that the public is told is all you are likely to know, and that is usually that the cyclist and the vehicle were trying to be in the same place at the same time.

<end rant>

My sympathy goes out to the family and friends of the victim, but, like rider I feel for the truck driver. It appears that he probably fucked up, big time, but whether or not he is responsible, there were actions he could have taken which would not have resulted in her death and he will have to live with that for the rest of his life.
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby E Dogg Capizzle on Thu 21/Mar/13 8:14pm

Excellent post. :thumbsup:
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby R+P+K on Fri 22/Mar/13 12:21am

E Dogg Capizzle wrote:Excellent post. :thumbsup:


:withstupid:
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby Reghere on Fri 22/Mar/13 2:40pm

Great post Ape.

Well I do have a little more information but do want to emphasize that it is not complete. No doubt its a police matter at this stage.

There where 2 groups of cyclists riding single file. We do know that the truck passed the 1st group, successfully, but passed very close to the riders. When the truck got to the 2nd group, Jane Farrelly was the first cyclist that the truck passed in next group. The truck simply went to close. Jane was wider than the others (the riders in front of her did not get hit) and she got pulled under the trailer. No doubt the details on the distances between the cyclists and the overtaking distance will be forthcoming. There was no shoulder to the road where the accident happened.

We (cyclists) in Taupo have been very active in trying to get Poihipi road widened. After 12 years, we have managed to get $300K allocated to widen approx 2-3km, of what we think are dangerous area's (typically the uphill sections). The planning has been done and it is going to Tender now.

Personally, I avoid Poihipi when I can, and ride on Forest road, Oranui or Marpara rd.

Again, condolences to the friends and family of Jane Farrelly.

Andrew
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby Rider on Fri 22/Mar/13 9:47pm

Great post Ape.

Andrew, the locals know where to ride, what we need is Map to show the visitors where to ride and were to avoid.
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby deezal on Sat 23/Mar/13 8:36am

I believe it should be part of taking your driving road test that you are made to ride a bike in town or city traffic. If you have never ridden a bike you will have little awareness of how vunerable you can be as a cyclist. Unless we change other drivers attitudes to cyclists, nothing will change. Cyclists that jump red lights should realise they are not helping the situation. That seems to give other drivers the excuse that cyclists are all criminals. By waiting at the lights you can at least gain a bit of respect from other drivers, as well as acting responsibly.
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby piwakawaka on Sat 23/Mar/13 9:32am

"was killed by" is bullshit. all we know is died as the result of an interaction with. While the exact mechanics of the event probably aren't especially important to us, and we can probably make assumptions that may well be true, it is also possible (albiet unlikely) that she swerved 2 meters to the right at just the wrong time, due to mechanical failure or any other reason. Save the blame till you've got the facts, if you never get the facts, stick with sympathy.

Whenever a cyclist gets killed a bunch of cyclists jump up and down ranting and raving about how everyone else should change, that roads aren't good enough and how the quality of nz drivers is terrible. Yes, there is room for "them" to improve but equally, we're not much good at looking after ourselves. I regularly see under-confident, unskilled, unaware, overconfident or just plain inconsiderate riders on the road, perhaps we need some formal instruction for us too.

Before you react to an incident that you know very little about bare in mind that until the police have done all their investigation, the only facts that the public is told is all you are likely to know, and that is usually that the cyclist and the vehicle were trying to be in the same place at the same time.

<end rant>[/quote]

You are quite right that being alive is a fatal disease, BUT, that woman would be alive if the truck had not run her over.

It is that simple. Roads, skills, conditions, none of that shit matters, what matters is if you run over a cyclist in a vehicle they might die.
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby kaiteri on Sun 24/Mar/13 8:23pm

ape wrote:
great uncle bulgaria wrote:fact: cyclist was killed by over-taking truck.

conclusion: the overtaking was unsafe. ie the driver of the truck did not use sufficient caution for the conditions to ensure safe overtaking

nice troll though ;)


"was killed by" is bullshit. all we know is died as the result of an interaction with. While the exact mechanics of the event probably aren't especially important to us, and we can probably make assumptions that may well be true, it is also possible (albiet unlikely) that she swerved 2 meters to the right at just the wrong time, due to mechanical failure or any other reason. Save the blame till you've got the facts, if you never get the facts, stick with sympathy.

Whenever a cyclist gets killed a bunch of cyclists jump up and down ranting and raving about how everyone else should change, that roads aren't good enough and how the quality of nz drivers is terrible. Yes, there is room for "them" to improve but equally, we're not much good at looking after ourselves. I regularly see under-confident, unskilled, unaware, overconfident or just plain inconsiderate riders on the road, perhaps we need some formal instruction for us too.

I am alive today due to the actions of motorists, the thousands who have seen me and not driven into me while just driving along, The ones who've jumped on their brakes when I've swerved to avoid car doors that some numpty opened in front of me, the time I overestimated my grip and slid through a free left turn into traffic driving straight through from my right.

There have been plenty of moments that I've been very scared cycling on our roads, some of them were clearly the fault of drivers, some of them seemed like the fault of drivers, but, after a few hours of thinking, I came to the conclusion that I was partially to blame, or at least created a situation that they couldn't be expected to anticipate. There are also some that were completely my fault. All of them would not have happened if I was not there, so I did contribute to the events. Hard that it is to admit, most cyclists (and drivers) do, or have done, something wrong every now and then.

Before you react to an incident that you know very little about bare in mind that until the police have done all their investigation, the only facts that the public is told is all you are likely to know, and that is usually that the cyclist and the vehicle were trying to be in the same place at the same time.

<end rant>

My sympathy goes out to the family and friends of the victim, but, like rider I feel for the truck driver. It appears that he probably fucked up, big time, but whether or not he is responsible, there were actions he could have taken which would not have resulted in her death and he will have to live with that for the rest of his life.


Did you even read my post? To broaden my argument to all drivers (and cyclists) totally misses my point.
I railed against that minority of truck drivers who put our lives at risk by not showing enough care & consideration to other road users, be it due to their arrogance, impatience, hostility or poor judgement. THAT needs to change and a starting point would be a training programme that made them more aware of the vulnerability of cyclists when being passed too closely by large trucks.

And I'll defend my right to get angry when another cyclist dies at the hands of one of these dangerous drivers. When a cyclist out on a bunch ride goes under the wheels of a truck on a narrow road, I have all the facts I need to place responsibility. In several European countries, in any car v bike accident, the blame automatically falls on the driver and what a difference that makes to the respect you're accorded on the road! You can wait for the court report before commenting - most of us will feel too removed from the event by then to bother. I don't post on Vorb often but, when I want to vent about a cycling-related issue while my blood's running hot, this is where I come to do it.

Your sympathy for the truck driver is well-intentioned but don't assume a lifetime of remorse. I had an acquaintance who (before 'boy racers') loved driving fast. One night he took a corner too fast and hit an oncoming car, killing the driver and smashing the guy's fiance's pelvis. Within weeks we were hearing the excuses: the road was wet, the speed indicator sign was too high, he wasn't used to the car, etc. 5-6 years later I met him again. He boasted how that week he'd managed to shake off a pursuing police car on his native suburban streets. He still thought he was a shit-hot driver...
I'd rather the truck driver gets an appropriate penalty now that teaches him - and sends out a clear message to others - that killing a cyclist on the road earns severe consequences.

And if you still want to play 'wait and see', my bike wager is still open.
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Re: Cyclist Dies On Notorious Stretch Of Road

Postby Crashed on Sun 24/Mar/13 11:10pm

You hit a vehicle while over taking it YOU ARE AT FAULT no matter what vehicle you hit ,now we wait to see how weak our Justice system is ........I can hear the water running to dampen the bus ticket already
Crashed
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