Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby aj- on Sat 28/Feb/09 11:08am

happybaboon wrote:
Simonk wrote:The $50 mill figure is getting a lot of flack.

The standard rate for gravelled single track is $25/m. So $50mill is good for about 2000km of track. Take away the cost of design, signs, infrastructure, etc and you'll still be left with enough for a LOT of track. Bear in mind that this can tie in with other projects - and be realistic that it would involve simply repainting some sections of road to link the off-road stuff - and you're still looking at the most significant cycling project that NZ has ever considered.

It amazes me that any cyclist should see this as a glass half empty situation.


Presumably it's $25/m for track on land that you've got the right to build on?

Govt doesn't own a track of land spanning the entire length of the country*, and most farmers would be unwilling to welcome thousands of tourists onto their farms every year (with good reason).

*unless you want the trail to follow SH1 and/or rail lines...


No they don't own a single continuous track, but they own of whole lot of big pieces. So a whole lot of big pieces of track can be built while the rest is negotiated. So what if SH1 is needed for parts for a while.
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby Mr_Bob on Sat 28/Feb/09 11:20am

happybaboon wrote:
pb wrote:set up bike compatible public transport

And you said that building a road from one end of the country to the other for $50m was far fetched :lol:

Take a look at the guidelines on most intercity/newmans or northliner bus services:
Bicycles will be carried at the discretion of the driver, and cannot be booked

I was helping out on a school holiday camp as a leader the last school holidays, Had a kid who was traveling from new plymouth, transferring at Palmerston north, then up to Rotorua.
there was no space on the bus from palmerston north to Rotorua for a bike.
I'd like to see that kind of service as a thing of the past, sadly, I don't think it's going to happen though.
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby slowMTB on Sat 28/Feb/09 11:21am

aj- wrote:
happybaboon wrote:
Simonk wrote:The $50 mill figure is getting a lot of flack.

The standard rate for gravelled single track is $25/m. So $50mill is good for about 2000km of track. Take away the cost of design, signs, infrastructure, etc and you'll still be left with enough for a LOT of track. Bear in mind that this can tie in with other projects - and be realistic that it would involve simply repainting some sections of road to link the off-road stuff - and you're still looking at the most significant cycling project that NZ has ever considered.

It amazes me that any cyclist should see this as a glass half empty situation.


Presumably it's $25/m for track on land that you've got the right to build on?

Govt doesn't own a track of land spanning the entire length of the country*, and most farmers would be unwilling to welcome thousands of tourists onto their farms every year (with good reason).

*unless you want the trail to follow SH1 and/or rail lines...


No they don't own a single continuous track, but they own of whole lot of big pieces. So a whole lot of big pieces of track can be built while the rest is negotiated. So what if SH1 is needed for parts for a while.


Thats the spirit :thumbsup: :)
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby xcwander on Sat 28/Feb/09 11:48am

Add that there is already a walking track in a lot of places to achieve the same thing. And in some cases this was built to take cyclists as well. There's also other projects like DOCs one, in planning already, in the central NI on the old bushtram lines. There's also Local body reserves that can be used.

We portray ourselves to the world as 100% natural and a Green Country, so lets our money where our mouths are and not our FEET as some seem inclined to do. And a quote from the job summit "We are not a country of whiners", seams some are....

So you build a cycleway for touring bikes, lets say initially down the centre of both Islands, diverting where needed to take in the major tourist destinations, Bay of Islands, Rotorua, Taupo, then either east or west coast, into Wgtn. Then Nelson, Blenheim, Hamner, ChCh, the lakes, meet the Otago rail trail, then on to Bluff.

The number of currently dead or dying rural towns you will go through is huge! This is putting money into the places that are the hardest hit, and your giving them an on going revenue stream. Backpacker lodges, pubs etc will all benifit, these a small NZ owned businesses. Would you rather the $50million be spent on tourism that goes to corporate, often off shore owned airlines, hotel chains etc!

Once the backbone is in, support could be given for regional initiatives, to connect and spur off. Say a spur from around Ohakune over the saddle in to Whangamomona and into the 'naki. In other places there's lots of council owend Stop banks on rivers that cold be used. The odd old railway reserve, how about Paeroa to Waihi on the old rail line, link that into Rotorua and you have a fantastic link into the corromandel.


Tourism is changing, independent style travel is what has driven backpackers etc. They spend money on enjoying themselves, and are environmentally aware. We are a long way from our markets, and those closer are going to push the whole carbon foot print argument. Having an Airline thats leading the charge in Biofuels and we then put these tourists in Imported old tech diesel buses is a real oxymoron in my books.

Just some thoughts

Guy
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby Dazzle on Sat 28/Feb/09 12:06pm

happybaboon wrote:*unless you want the trail to follow SH1 and/or rail lines...



I seem to recall some issues with building roads over old sections of the rail network that no longer had rail on them, because the land the rail used to run on was still owned by the rail way. The rail network is now Govt owned.... (for a butt load more than $50million)....

Using old rail corridors could be :thumbsup:



And $25/m to build gravel single track? What is the maintenance cost? I seem to remember forestry paper roads having a maintenance cost in the low hundreds $ per km. For a national cycle corridor I wouldn't want maintenance handled on a regional council basis because the competency at this sort of thing at a regional level runs from 'passable' to 'bonzo the clown farts prime numbers'.
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby duzall on Sat 28/Feb/09 12:15pm

Dazzle wrote:
happybaboon wrote:*unless you want the trail to follow SH1 and/or rail lines...



I seem to recall some issues with building roads over old sections of the rail network that no longer had rail on them, because the land the rail used to run on was still owned by the rail way. The rail network is now Govt owned.... (for a butt load more than $50million)....

Using old rail corridors could be :thumbsup:



And $25/m to build gravel single track? What is the maintenance cost? I seem to remember forestry paper roads having a maintenance cost in the low hundreds $ per km. For a national cycle corridor I wouldn't want maintenance handled on a regional council basis because the competency at this sort of thing at a regional level runs from 'passable' to 'bonzo the clown farts prime numbers'.


Does anyone know what the maintenance costs are on the Otago rail trail? Given what this idea sounds like, wouldn't that be a pretty good place to start when estimating costs/benefits?
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby Dazzle on Sat 28/Feb/09 12:35pm

For anyone who is interested.
Here is the Galloping Goose in BC. It mixes road and gravelled ex rail track to form a successful hiking/biking trail.

I have ridden a section of it, and give it a hearty :thumbsup:

http://www.gallopinggoosetrail.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galloping_goose_trail
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby xcwander on Sat 28/Feb/09 12:56pm

We already have the Otago Rail trail, the Rimutaka Incline, The Queen Charlotte, add in maybe the Molesworth Station of the Rainbow rage Route

There's lots of little bits already
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby Colin on Sat 28/Feb/09 1:19pm

I reckon it is great -even if it takes longer to build and connect the bits.

Western Australia has been building the 900km Munda Biddioffroad trail from Perth to Albany http://mundabiddi.org.au/trail-info/exp ... trail.html

including campsites (picture attached). That project has been going for over 10 year ad still isn't finished.

They already have the 100km Bibbulmun walking trail http://www.bibbulmuntrack.org.au/track- ... Track.aspx

Great thing is the whole trail doesn't have to be finished before it can start being used.
Munda Biddi Campsite.JPG
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby Simonk on Sat 28/Feb/09 7:57pm

happybaboon - It's been suggested that this project be managed by DOC. The Conservation Estate covers 30% of NZ. The Govt also has many other state highways, and there is endless road reserve out there managed by territorial authorities. Add to this unused rail corridors and recreational lands such as regional parks and there is plenty of land to get started with.

Have a look at what Sustrans have managed in the UK.http://www.sustrans.org.uk/default.asp?sID=1089735289781
or the Adventure Cycling Association in the USA http://www.adventurecycling.org/

These two groups are doing totally different stuff from the proposed cycleway idea, but they give some inkling of how the new Freeway 0 project might work with the National Cycleway to make it a success.
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby Kyle on Sat 28/Feb/09 9:23pm

Dazzle wrote:For anyone who is interested.
Here is the Galloping Goose in BC. It mixes road and gravelled ex rail track to form a successful hiking/biking trail.

I have ridden a section of it, and give it a hearty :thumbsup:

http://www.gallopinggoosetrail.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galloping_goose_trail


And it's only a small part of the Trans Canada Trail http://www.tctrail.ca/home.php


...length of NZ doesn't seem so far now.
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby BrokenKonaRider on Sat 28/Feb/09 9:55pm

I would have never, in a million years, thought a NZ length cycle way through national parks (and completing Te Arahoa) would be economic stimulus ideas to come from John Key. Readers, please excuse my earlier cynicism.
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby nzmatto on Sat 28/Feb/09 10:12pm

BrokenKonaRider wrote:I would have never, in a million years, thought a NZ length cycle way through national parks (and completing Te Arahoa) would be economic stimulus ideas to come from John Key. Readers, please excuse my earlier cynicism.

That is sooooo true!!!! We were just talking the other day at work that the whole left and right alignment of our Govt between Labour and National seems to put both parties firmly in the middle. In times gone by National would have been the ones promoting big businesses to get bigger, stuff all this fluffy touristy shit......Like I say that was in times gone by.....you know, and I have never said this about a govt before, but I think I am liking the direction this one is going in. To me the first 100 days and the way they are prepared to think up new solutions, not bad.

I still reckon we aint got a shit show of actually getting the bike track, but the idea and willingness to get it past the first think tank seems good to me.
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby thelongwalk on Sat 28/Feb/09 10:51pm

it would also probably mean that they would at least get a cycle lane across the auckland bridge, which would be great for the city
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Re: Cycleway The Length Of New Zealand

Postby chuckie34 on Sun 1/Mar/09 12:40am

Scaredy_Cat wrote:
Hmm - riding the length of NZ - this idea appeals to me. Definitely on my things to do list :)



Funny enough, that was my first thought too. :thumbsup: Take a few weeks off work, get dropped off in kaitaia and bike x amount every day and then find somewhere to sleep eat till tomorow. Keep going till I get to bluff. all the little towns would benefit. Be a great way to see our great country.

I'd be happy to turn a shovel or two for this venture. To all those who see many many problems with the idea, what can you/we do to overcome them?

G :)
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